The 8000 respondents, from 16 different countries, answered questions on what they thought about Hamas, their opinion on Iran and Western countries, and what actions were needed by Arab states.
Recall that it was the US who had to twist Egypt’s arm into accepting refugees. Black September was a thing, and it resulted in several Arab countries refusing to take Palestinian refugees.
It’s important that we discuss this. Hamas and other extremist groups take advantage of the kindness that is offered to Palestinians, and they cause civil wars and assassinations. If I remember right, they murdered the king of Jordan.
The Muslim extremists are a problem for everyone, and they make life much harder for Palestinians.
I’m not agreeing with any overarching point, I’m just not sure they’re as bad as you think with regards to helping their own countrymen. Though maybe that generosity begins and ends with its citizens.
Handy for Israel to get to exterminate them within their own borders and everyone else is to blame because they won’t take them as refugees. Both those things are bad, but one is at least a bit worse.
Oh don’t get me wrong, the blame is backwards. It lies primarily with Israel for killing them. It’s fucked up, albeit less so, for these other countries to refuse to take in the refugees.
It’s important that we discuss this. Hamas and other extremist groups take advantage of the kindness that is offered to Palestinians, and they cause civil wars and assassinations. If I remember right, they murdered the king of Jordan.
Yeah I won’t deny that these things are all pretty messed up, but the claim that Arabs hate Palestinians is just wrong, at least from what I’ve seen as an Egyptian. Also I don’t see how Hamas, which was founded in the mid-80s in a completely different political climate, has anything to do with this. The PLO, which isn’t even Islamist, is the one who did these things.
Generalities are rarely true, I should’ve specified. I agree that the statement “Arabs hate Palestinians” is more wrong than it is right. And there are certainly differences between the PLO and Hamas and other militant groups.
It would be more correct to say that violent militants are using the Palestinians’ plight to take advantage of the kindness of Arab neighbors and then try to take over their societies. And naturally, that has made neighboring countries reticent to take in refugees.
What is wrong however is seeing a terrorist attack against Israeli civilians as legitimate resistance when they themselves will not take in Palestinian refugees.
What is wrong however is seeing a terrorist attack against Israeli civilians as legitimate resistance when they themselves will not take in Palestinian refugees.
Unfortunately many Arab people do consider all Jewish Israeli civilians as active participants in Israel’s crimes, but that’s a whole different story. The serious argument that October 7th was legitimate resistance relies on the fact that it was against military targets, with no evidence the leadership ordered anything close to slaughter of civilians. Add in that even after the IDF shelled and shot their own citizens the civilian casualty rate was 66% and the idea that Hamas just passed the border and randomly murdered civilians falls apart pretty quickly. Of course not denying the atrocities that actually happened, but October 7th as a whole was legitimate resistance with an army that’s prone to committing war crimes, not a terror attack with the goal of murdering civilians. This distinction is important because “atrocities were committed on October 7th” and “October 7th was a terror attack” aren’t equivalent statements.
There’s no one source that’ll cover everything, but since most of us have a general idea of what Hamas did (and that’s mostly what you’ll get if you look up October 7th) here’s a few examples/evidence of the IDF killing their citizens on October 7th.
https://kbin.social/m/[email protected]/t/759856/Israel-s-IDF-ordered-to-prevent-Hamas-from-returning-to-Gaza
(contains the Hebrew article and a translation in the comments).
Oh I didn’t realize it was on Oct 7 itself that they killed Israelis. I think I see what you’re saying now though. I misunderstood you at first and thought you were saying that most of what Hamas did was actually the IDF.
Recall that it was the US who had to twist Egypt’s arm into accepting refugees. Black September was a thing, and it resulted in several Arab countries refusing to take Palestinian refugees.
It’s important that we discuss this. Hamas and other extremist groups take advantage of the kindness that is offered to Palestinians, and they cause civil wars and assassinations. If I remember right, they murdered the king of Jordan.
The Muslim extremists are a problem for everyone, and they make life much harder for Palestinians.
Does that mean they hate Palestinians, or just refugees in general?
It seems like the cultures of, checks notes, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar are not built around helping those less-fortunate.
No idea about the other two but I’m pretty sure this doesn’t apply to Egypt.
Charity is one of the main pillars of Islam. Saudi Arabia even has (had?) what was basically a Universal Basic Income for its citizens: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen's_Account_Program_(Saudi_Arabia)
I’m not agreeing with any overarching point, I’m just not sure they’re as bad as you think with regards to helping their own countrymen. Though maybe that generosity begins and ends with its citizens.
What percentage of people living in Saudi Arabia are allowed to be citizens?
~55% I think.
The rest might as well be dirt.
K
Mass slavery doesn’t sound very charitable.
Do you not know what ok means?
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Handy for Israel to get to exterminate them within their own borders and everyone else is to blame because they won’t take them as refugees. Both those things are bad, but one is at least a bit worse.
Oh don’t get me wrong, the blame is backwards. It lies primarily with Israel for killing them. It’s fucked up, albeit less so, for these other countries to refuse to take in the refugees.
I don’t think they said or even implied that
Yeah I won’t deny that these things are all pretty messed up, but the claim that Arabs hate Palestinians is just wrong, at least from what I’ve seen as an Egyptian. Also I don’t see how Hamas, which was founded in the mid-80s in a completely different political climate, has anything to do with this. The PLO, which isn’t even Islamist, is the one who did these things.
Generalities are rarely true, I should’ve specified. I agree that the statement “Arabs hate Palestinians” is more wrong than it is right. And there are certainly differences between the PLO and Hamas and other militant groups.
It would be more correct to say that violent militants are using the Palestinians’ plight to take advantage of the kindness of Arab neighbors and then try to take over their societies. And naturally, that has made neighboring countries reticent to take in refugees.
What is wrong however is seeing a terrorist attack against Israeli civilians as legitimate resistance when they themselves will not take in Palestinian refugees.
Unfortunately many Arab people do consider all Jewish Israeli civilians as active participants in Israel’s crimes, but that’s a whole different story. The serious argument that October 7th was legitimate resistance relies on the fact that it was against military targets, with no evidence the leadership ordered anything close to slaughter of civilians. Add in that even after the IDF shelled and shot their own citizens the civilian casualty rate was 66% and the idea that Hamas just passed the border and randomly murdered civilians falls apart pretty quickly. Of course not denying the atrocities that actually happened, but October 7th as a whole was legitimate resistance with an army that’s prone to committing war crimes, not a terror attack with the goal of murdering civilians. This distinction is important because “atrocities were committed on October 7th” and “October 7th was a terror attack” aren’t equivalent statements.
I might not be up to date on the latest understanding of the days events. Do you know a good source where I could go read up on it?
There’s no one source that’ll cover everything, but since most of us have a general idea of what Hamas did (and that’s mostly what you’ll get if you look up October 7th) here’s a few examples/evidence of the IDF killing their citizens on October 7th.
https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/a-growing-number-of-reports-indicate-israeli-forces-responsible-for-israeli-civilian-and-military-deaths-following-october-7-attack/
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/another-israeli-witness-confirms-israeli-tanks-killed-own-citizens-on-oct-7/3079514
https://kbin.social/m/[email protected]/t/759856/Israel-s-IDF-ordered-to-prevent-Hamas-from-returning-to-Gaza
(contains the Hebrew article and a translation in the comments).
Oh I didn’t realize it was on Oct 7 itself that they killed Israelis. I think I see what you’re saying now though. I misunderstood you at first and thought you were saying that most of what Hamas did was actually the IDF.
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It’s unfortunate that we can’t just lock up all the extremists into one room and let them solve the problem for us.
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