That is not 2 separate buttons on the right, like I initially thought clicking through checkout.
I don’t understand why there is so much defense for this in the comments. Amazon is a huge company with professional design teams, if part of their checkout process is even a little misleading in favor of an upsell it is definitely intentional.
Yes. That’s Amazon using dark patterns. This demonstrates that enshittification is not confined to social media.
Ooop, it may have happened even before Twitter, Reddit etc.
From Corey Doctorow: Ultimately, it doesn’t matter if Amazon’s enshittification is because [Jeff] Bezos was a cynic or because he sold out. Once Amazon could make more money by screwing its customers, that screw-job became a fait accompli.
Saying it’s a weak example of asshole design does not equate to defending Amazon.
It’s possible for Amazon to be extremely predatory and shitty, as well as this not being a very good example of how shitty they are, at the same time.
Possible yes, but does that really seem like reality to you in this situation? It doesn’t to me.
I really don’t get it. They’re offering an upsell. At worst it’s minorly annoying.
I would assume they need to list the price of the upsell on that same page. I’m just speculating though; I’m not familiar with the relevant laws and haven’t read the suit either.
By the way, it is and amazon is already being sued by the US FTC.
Internally they called cancellations the Iliad Process. If that isn’t a sign that everything is super totally above board I don’t know what is.
Uuuf.
With a small fine with huge benefits as always?
TBD, but I would not be suprised. As an aside, I did not see any such shenenigans when buying from Amazon most likely because EU tends to be more liberal with the fines.
Why would it be two buttons on the right, and what behavior would you expect if “Cancel Anytime” was a button?
The goal of this is to get you to sign up for Prime, so there’s nothing yet to cancel.
This is “annoying” design in the sense that getting an upsell is annoying, but I don’t really see it as malicious/asshole.
I would still say it’s an asshole design. They are trying to copy a well established internet Design Trend where a ‘Not Now’ sort of a button is slightly greyed out near the advertisement. I would assume the next trick would be to sneakily add the prime fees in the total and some unsuspecting user would fall for it. Not to mention, the whole fiasco of how hard Amazon made it to cancel the prime subscription. Fuck these companies.
Nah, next is, you must watch three one minute ads and answer 10 questions about the content of the ads correctly to continue without prime and there will be a captcha displayed under the questions, which will be timed out after question 10 and you will have to start over from video one to get another try. However, when the server notices your IP already got the ad once, it will throttle the bandwidth, so the video buffers every 3 seconds. When you finally made it to the checkout, some items became unavailable or slightly more expensive and you have to go back to the basket to update it.
You need to be banned from working in web design lol
It’s not possible to know from this screenshot alone if “Cancel Anytime” is a clickable target or if it’s just text, but when taking a quick glance at least to my eyes the options seem pretty clearly delineated.
Amazon sucks and they are plenty predatory, I’m just saying this is a pretty mild example of hostile UI if at all.
It’s absolutely, 100% intentionally misleading. They even recognize that internally and are currently being sued for just that.
In a complaint filed in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Washington, the agency accused Amazon of using deceptive designs, known as “dark patterns,” to deceive consumers into enrolling in Prime, which provides subscribers with perks such as faster shipping for an fee of $139 annually, or $14.99 a month.
The FTC said Amazon made it difficult for customers to purchase an item without also subscribing to Prime. In some cases, consumers were presented with a button to complete their transactions — which didn’t clearly state it would also enroll them in Prime.
Getting out of a subscription was often too complicated, and Amazon leadership slowed or rejected changes that would have made canceling easier, the complaint said.
Internally, Amazon called the process “Iliad,” a reference to the ancient Greek poem about lengthy siege of Troy during the Trojan war.
https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/06/21/amazon-prime-without-consent/
Don’t forget when they were automatically signing people with an Amazon Echo to Amazon Music. I had to cancel that twice and neither time was there ever a comment or email stating I was enrolled.
The examples in the FTC complaint are all well and good, and as I already said, Amazon sucks and their predatory practices are well-known, but this specific example, the one we’re talking about on this post, is pretty pedestrian.
If the OP were to post the 7-step process it takes to cancel a prime membership, that would be firmly and wholly in asshole design territory, I know, I’ve had to go through it myself. But just posting a screenshot of a mild upsell that has a clear set of binary options on opposite sides of the screen and saying “Amazon bad” doesn’t really contribute much - everyone knows Amazon sucks, and there are plenty of examples of them sucking, this just really isn’t a very good one.
Common UI has “yes” and “no” (or whatever terms) next to each other, often in different colors. This is mimicing it so you think it’s two separate buttons when it’s one button for “yes”.
And has “cancel …” like you’d expect on a cancel button. If you stop reading or are skimming (we all do it) you think it’s the cancel button. This is very likely a deliberate choice.
Different color, common placement, the word “cancel …”, you go on autopilot, and now you’re subscribed! And good luck trying to cancel.
And has “cancel …” like you’d expect on a cancel button. If you stop reading or are skimming (we all do it) you think it’s the cancel button. This is very likely a deliberate choice.
But there’s nothing to cancel here, so in this context there’s no basis for assumption that there would be a cancel button - cancel what? A subscription you don’t yet have? It’s not a logical conclusion.
Sure, we all skim sometimes, but this isn’t a 40 page terms of use document. There are 36 words in this entire screenshot. It takes significantly less than 30 seconds to read everything on this page and make an informed decision.
You’re being extremely pedantic. The buttons are affirmative or refusal. That’s what people associate and think. You see “cancel” which is a extremely common refusal button and think it’s a refusal button. People aren’t doing an analysis that “I technically haven’t signed up, so technically there’s nothing to cancel, in the strict definition of cancel a service, so technically cancel doesn’t fit, so the decision tree must therefore be…”. No, you go into affirm or deny.
Ever wonder why at a bank machine you get your card back first and then the cash? Because they found the other way around people take the cash (what they are focused on) and don’t wait for the card. UI design is a real thing precisely to avoid confusion. They are very much taking advantage of it.
The buttons are affirmative or refusal.
Yes, they are: the link on the left clearly states “Continue without Amazon Prime”, the button on the right clearly states “Continue with Amazon Prime”. I don’t share your view that “Cancel anytime” underneath that button is confusing.
The user shares some responsibility in reading what they are clicking on - this is also why “I didn’t read it” isn’t a valid legal defense against a contract or terms you agreed to.
Yes, they are: the link on the left clearly states “
I said it already:
Common UI has “yes” and “no” (or whatever terms) next to each other, often in different colors. This is mimicing it so you think it’s two separate buttons when it’s one button for “yes”.
Not on opposite sides of the screen. Next to each other.
And the whole right side has a big blue box around it. As in all your attention needs to be on the right side, that’s where the decision tree is.
And then like I said, it has the affirmative, and right where you’d expect it the refusal button. But it’s not a refusal button, it’s part of the affirmative button.
I don’t share your view that “Cancel anytime” underneath that button is confusing.
Oh you just did it! “Cancel anytime” is not underneath the button, it is part of the affirmative button. Part of.
Congrats you just got confused. You went on autopilot and got it mixed up. You know, based on what you’d expect based on common UI. You just did what you are lambasting others for.
Oh you just did it! “Cancel anytime” is not underneath the button, it is part of the affirmative button. Part of.
…but it’s not part of the button. The yellow button that says “Continue with Amazon Prime” is fully contained within the yellow button that one would click to proceed.
I’m not sure how much clearer the decline option being on the left, and the proceed option on the right, highlighted in yellow, could be.
And again, the “Cancel anytime” subtext isn’t even clickable, so what deceptive action has Amazon engineered here? For someone to click on a non-clickable target?
There’s no arguing that this is stupid design, but that doesn’t make it asshole design. Hanlon’s razor and all that.
Take another look! Both the yellow button and “cancel …” are part of the same bigger grey box.
This is OP’s complaint. It looks like two boxes/buttons, but it’s one bigger button containing both. You click “cancel…”, and you’ve really just clicked the bigger box that subscribes.
Congrats, you did exactly, exactly, what OP did.
There “cancel any time” is definitely clickable. It signs you up to Amazon prime with one click.
I’ve personally fallen for this, it works and it’s intentional. Anything that tricks a user into clicking on something they didn’t mean to is a dark pattern and asshole design.
Cancel the process of placing the order.
Fuck off, Andy
We’re having a conversation, there’s really no need to be hostile. You’re allowed to have your own view, as am I.
It was a joke that you’re Andy Jassy, the CEO of Amazon, given your constant defense of the company’s predatory practices.
I’ve been pretty clear that Amazon is predatory and well-known to be shitty. I’ve been clear using my own example of how difficult it is to cancel Amazon Prime as a great example of hostile UI design.
It’s possible to have an intelligent conversation about how the specific example used in this post isn’t a very good representation of hostile design, especially compared to the other egregious things Amazon has done and continues to do.
You don’t need to resort to being rude, it’s okay to say you don’t agree.
Sorry about your reading comprehension
On a quick inspection the left barely looks like it’s worth reading and it’s easy to miss the link, so you’re led to thinking there’s a yes and a no button on the right. Click the no button and you’ve subscribed to Prime.
Obviously if you stop and actually look at everything you’ll realise what’s up. But this relies on you rushing and being misled in to signing up, which clearly works for them.
I see your point, and of course each user’s interpretation is going to be different.
But I think you made another good point in your second paragraph - the effectiveness of these is dependent on user ignorance.
I’m not saying by any means that it’s the user’s fault if they fall prey to hostile UI, but there is some responsibility on the user to actually read what they’re clicking before they click, in the sense that you can protect yourself from a lot of scenarios like this just by taking a moment and reading.
I understand that’s easier said than done, trying to help my parents with technical support items is infuriating to watch them click “ok” on a dialog box and then ask you afterwards what it said - like, there’s an easy solution: read, then click. Not the other way around.
I downloaded the Amazon app a while back. The first message that popped up with a “join prime” screen. I very nearly tapped the join button because it was the only button on the screen and I wasn’t paying attention - I had to scroll to find the “maybe later” button. They seem to love their hostile UI.
I accidentally signed up for prime that way, and it was a pain to cancel. This shit should definitely be illegal.
I actually clicked on “continue without Amazon Prime” once and the next screen said congratulations new prime member. I had to search how to undo my free month trial that auto renews smh
Dark patterns are real and everywhere now.
Saw this post moments after seeing yours
https://lemmy.world/post/1030772 “FTC sues Amazon for ‘tricking and trapping’ people in Prime subscription”
I was trying to buy some stuff on the app and even though I said NO, I noticed I had Prime at checkout. I might have missed something, but it asked me three times about canceling and got emails about it. None about signing up though. I was waiting for them to be sued.
I was trying to buy some stuff on the app and even though I said NO, I noticed I had Prime at checkout. I might have missed something, but it asked me three times about canceling and got emails about it. None about signing up though. I was waiting for them to be sued.
I was trying to buy some stuff on the app and even though I said NO, I noticed I had Prime at checkout. I might have missed something, but it asked me three times about canceling and got emails about it. None about signing up though. I was waiting for them to be sued.
Solution: stop using Amazon
Seriously, I can’t think of a single good reason to use amazon in 2023. Not only are they usually more expensive than buying directly from a manufacturer or other retailer, but you run the risk of getting a counterfeit item and not notice within the return window. Not to mention the fact that you’re contributing to the further monopoly they have on online retail. Support smaller online retailers, almost all of them have a return policy equal to amazon’s.
I’m pretty sure that’s illegal in the EU.
Unfortunately this is a nightmare to regulate. Whatever regulation a government will come up with, amazon (and all other big tech) will do everything to maliciously comply.
Look at the french regulation on book prices. The french “directorate for competition, consumers, fraud punishment” told amazon that they could not sell books with free shipping. Books have regulated price in France to garantee equal access to everyone everywhere. The DGCCRF claimed that offering free shipping de facto lowered the price of the books and was unfair to small local book shops. The next day, amazon introduced €0.01 shipping for books…
I’m all for regulating these assholes to ensure fair competition. But regulating them is not as simple as some people make it sound like. I would hate to be a lawmaker.
Why illegal?
It’s misleading and deceptive. They’re being sued for it right now.
Being illiterate?
Yet somehow you were still able to type two words. Clap, clap
We get what they’re talking about: default selection being a subscription rather than just buying the item like you originally asked. Shady practice at best.
People read left to right correct? If you read correctly the first option you see is not to get prime. My point is the poster for some reason thought cancel anytime somehow meant that was the button to press…
However, the Prime option is deliberately colourful and placed next to the grey no-Prime option so the Prime option is the first thing you see. Then maybe you look back and see ‘oh there’s an option to continue without Prime’.
Idk just because you made a mistake doesn’t mean it should be illegal. In the grand scheme of shady marketing this really isn’t that bad…
Yes, just keep rolling over as corporations keep finding new ways to get people to accidentally subscribe to something they don’t want, only to find that unsubscribing is more complicated than they realized as well.
Don’t push back, don’t complain, it could always be worse so just accept it.
Amazon is being sued by the FTC for these practices, but I’m sure what Amazon is doing is just fine 👍🏻
