• magnetosphere@kbin.social
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    8 months ago

    I like how the child in the first panel grows up to be the protester in the second panel, and the child in the second panel grows up to be the protester in the third panel.

    • katkit@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      And the protester of one panel becomes the reactionary in the next panel. The person with red hair can be seen in every stage throughout the panels.

      • crackajack@reddthat.com
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        8 months ago

        I think that’s what they mean that “you become conservative as you grow older”. To me, doing so means you succumbed to the system.

            • doctorcrimson@lemmy.today
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              8 months ago

              I think I’ve gotten more conservative in that I now think a democratic system of law and slow progress for a better future is possible via peaceful means, which technically means I’m no longer for radical reform progressivism, and also I’ve been considering arming myself to protect my family (from Maga terrorists in the event of a civil war). But I’m still left as fuck, bro.

              • Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world
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                8 months ago

                Conservatism the political stance isn’t exactly compatible with some aspects of “democratic” or egalitarian ideals. It would be more accurate to say that maybe you consider yourself less progressive but the main throughline of “Conservative” political philosophy since it’s establishment as “the right” has been one that has argued that power should not be entirely egalitarian and that the only the “right” people are the only ones who should weild authority. In a monarchist society it’s the nobility, in a post monarchist society it means the wealthy intelligencia or the landlords, in a capitalist society it favors the rich and business elite and in a facist society it favors an “us” as opposed to a “them”. Another feature is that It also tends to attempt to empower select individuals and focuses on expanding the executive command at the top.

                While the right constantly apes the language of the left and it’s tactics regularly change when you lay open the very core of the thing it’s always got the same authoritarian objective. I posit that “conservative” meaning ‘not prone to excess’ and “Conservatism” the branch of politics really should stop being conflated at all as everyone and their dog believes that they are rational and not prone to excess and gives the false impression that one endorses the objectives of Conservatism. Since Conservatives thrive on the idea of being a moral majority depriving them of any notion that you actually endorse them is kind of nessisary to combat them.

              • R0cket_M00se@lemmy.world
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                8 months ago

                You should, firearms aren’t just for the lunatic conservatives and the more liberal minded people who are willing to learn to defend themselves the better off society will be.

                The conservative side loves to pretend they’re the only ones willing to fight for something, and I’d rather them not be correct if they ever tried something large scale.

            • Freylint@lemm.ee
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              8 months ago

              I’ve seen a few people go from brown nosers, to union men, to “mad about capitalism”. Some of them even graduated to “this guy’s been reading books”, I know only one who’s begun pitifully stockpiling arms and ammo and another who joined mutual aid. I’m still quite young, but most lefties of my early adulthood bourgeios white educated American caste are only considering action as a result of Israeli Imperialism and fear of a another world imperial struggle. The vast majorities of these are still socially tolerant neoloberals.

          • crackajack@reddthat.com
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            8 months ago

            Maybe “becoming conservative” as one grows older means differently to other people. Personally for me, as i grow older, I think it means looking for more stability. Which i can get behind but it doesn’t mean i will vote to cut taxes for the rich and austerity. Same as you, I’d stay leftie because i support social justice.

            • SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              8 months ago

              I’ll be honest, the older I get and the more I realize just how fucked the whole system is, the less I desire stability lmao

        • alvvayson@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          That’s what they mean and what they hope you do.

          In reality, only a small amount of people make that transition, and usually it is because of brain rot combined with propaganda like Fox news.

          Most people do get milder and more realistic as they age, but not necessarily more conservative.

          You can still find a lot of leaft-leaning old hippies. I guess Bernie Sanders would be the most famous one.

          • Revan343
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            8 months ago

            In previous generations, people did on average become more conservative as they got older; people like Bernie Sanders are the exception.

            It’s less true with newer generations because we aren’t accumulating wealth like our parents and grandparents did, and it’s the accumulation of wealth that encourages conservatism

        • OtakuAltair@lemm.ee
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          8 months ago

          On the contrary, this conflict has made me go from a liberal to a hardline leftist.

        • nossaquesapao@lemmy.eco.br
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          8 months ago

          I think it’s more like criticizing how people didn’t learn from the past. The title is about history repeating itself.

        • YashaB@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          What does that mean?

          I might have grown more right-wing in certain topics. I don’t think I’ve succumbed to the system. But I’m not sure.

          • crackajack@reddthat.com
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            8 months ago

            I’m thinking more socially. I grew up learning about the counterculture and hippy movement. And yet, the same generation, i.e. Boomers, that brought those activism now have become (and being stereotyped as) conservative.

            I came from a conservative culture. The media from the boomer generation teaches to question authority figures (there was dictatorship at the time). Despite that, many boomers demand unquestionable loyalty respect from younger folks.

            Now that I mentioned it, maybe people become conservative once they get to be in position of power.

        • Bondrewd@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          My rule of thumb is that sidevolving is easier than improving or degrading.

          If you became a dumb conservative, you are statistically more likely to have been a dumb liberal. The problem was with you in the first place and the value you came to represent in the society as a citizen of political sway.

          • Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            8 months ago

            Once you are a radicalized leftist you’re not going back to (neo) liberalism. You could downgrade to a social democrat, though. Its unlikely a politically active liberal is going to be so disenfranchised they become reactionary… And your explanation is exactly the reason why. If the political activity is coming from self-centeredness, then that person may resort to reactionary politics at some point.

        • WarlordSdocy@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          I don’t think it’s necessarily succumbing to it. Usually it’s more of the fact that you’re well established and have money and a house, so you feel that things don’t need to change anymore so you end up voting conservative. However since it’s seeming more and more likely home ownership and even retirement are too far away to ever be achievable for young people this shifting to conservative as you get older might not happen anymore.

        • rayyy@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          Exactly! I’ve seen it in the workplace over the years. Most give up and go-along-to-get-along or face shitty jobs and get passed over for advancements.

      • Astongt615@lemmy.one
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        8 months ago

        And the child in the third panel is arguably the child form of the first pulling-parent. Excellent design!

  • KISSmyOS@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    Pacifism is always an unpopular stance, because always, always, always, THIS war is different! THIS war is justified!
    The way pacifists are treated right now, when they criticize involvement in the Ukraine war, is pretty similar to how pacifists were treated before the first World War.

    But also, we shake our heads at the war enthusiasm before WW1, and don’t realize our own today. Cause this war is different.

    (For the record, I’m not personally against supporting Ukraine. But I also realize not everyone who is against involvement is a Putin-bot)

      • Striker@lemmy.worldOP
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        8 months ago

        I don’t that’s what he meant. He meant that many Russian soldiers are brainwashed by propaganda as well.

      • Apepollo11@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        With all due respect, you’re literally replying to a post saying that it’ll always be “This war is different, this war is justified” by emphasising how this war is different and this war is justified.

        • admiralteal@kbin.social
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          8 months ago

          But that’s not what is happening.

          What is happening is directly pointing out that this was is NOT different. That this war is ALSO unjustified.

          In war, the aggressors are the problem. Period. And lending support to the aggressed is not the same as supporting war.

          It would work, simply letting Russia finish a genocide against Ukraine or Israel finish a genocide against Palestine. The conflict would certainly be resolved that way. But if you think it is an acceptable outcome, you value peace too highly.

          • Apepollo11@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            Oh, I agree. Personally I think the world has a duty to stop any country attempting to annex parts of any other country.

            I was just tickled by that exchange.

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                8 months ago

                Ah, ok, I see what’s happened.

                Ok, misunderstanding. I’m not American - I didn’t see the connection with the US being the aggressor in the examples in the comic. I was just interpreting it as ‘Anti-War’.

                The rest of the exchange makes more sense now!

                I was honestly baffled, it felt like I was having a different conversation than everyone else.

        • lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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          8 months ago

          The war in Ukraine is not justified. Supporting Ukraine’s defense is.

          Don’t make the mistake of thinking the opponents of any particular military action are pacifists.

              • Apepollo11@lemmy.world
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                8 months ago

                Hanlon’s Razor, my dude.

                Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

                I realised that I’m in the bad here - I missed the connection between the specific wars in the cartoon (i.e. that the US was/supports the aggressor). I thought it was just anti-war in general.

          • Apepollo11@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            I should say what to Russia? I don’t understand.

            I agree that the world has a duty to stop any attempts a country might make to annex another country’s territory.

        • Bleeping Lobster@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          That war can end when Russia stops invading another country. Ukraine defending its citizens and territory is right and proper.

          Where are you from?

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        8 months ago

        Back when iraq was invaded, Saddam was the aggressor who bad WMD, it all turned out to be a lie.

        How do you know that American government is telling it’s citizens complete facts about Ukraine war?

        Yes I know Russia is the aggressor here and I am completely against the invasion. However, everyone knew that NATO expansion will trigger a war and US actively pushed for it. American governments hands are not clean when it comes to Ukraine war and American citizens don’t question it at all.

        Which brings me to the cartoon here where if you say the above mentioned statements you will be called a tankie, Putin bootlicker etc.

    • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      Not really comparable. If in 2003 the US did nothing Iraq would still be doing what it was doing and there would have been no war. If Ukraine stops fighting for even a day the country no longer exists.

      It isnt special pleading when you can point out major differences between cases.

      • PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee
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        8 months ago

        Kraut IMO made a pretty good argument based on exactly that point that Iraq would have been doing what it had been doing already,

        That being that what Iraq was doing was plenty horrible on its own, and that Bush and co could have made an argument for US involvement just on the merits of stopping a genocidal dictator. The question with no answer is if the public would have accepted that argument for going into Iraq at the same time as Afghanistan.

    • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      But we must also look at pacifism as a convenient shield at times. There were “pacifists” in the Second World War who clearly weren’t ideologically opposed to war but were opposed to fighting hitler. I see letting putin continue as utterly chamberlainian.

      • PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee
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        8 months ago

        Ok that’s not really fair. Declassified docs have revealed that Chamberlain knew damn well what was going to work and intentionally played down causus belli because he was buying Britain time to rearm, the problem was that time is a resource you buy for both sides, and the axis used theirs a lot better.

  • jinarched@lemm.ee
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    8 months ago

    That’s funny because those are the kind of opinions I developed by going to school.

    • lemmington_steele@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      and that’s why you can see that once the person has gone to school they protest (in the next panel)

      you then can see in the panel after they protest that they become the parent, telling their child to go to school. presumably because they forgot what they learned at school (or because they think school is the best way for children to learn about these things - which seems a little less likely)

  • Thaumiel@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    It’s different now. Now Republicans don’t want people going to school. School just forces the lib’rul into kids brains.

  • randon31415@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    If Biden gets reelected and we do the “each party gets two terms then switch” dance that has been going on now for decades, it will be 2036 before we have a chance of electing a president that will hold Israel accountable for its actions.

  • uis@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    Can anyone make similar picture with texts: “No Afgan war”, “No Chechnya war”, “No Ukraine war” and on every slide police is beating them?

    • randon31415@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      Gee, if only Gaza would vote them out of power. If only they held an election. What is needed for an election? Voting machines and money. Wonder why they can’t get voting machines… wonder why the money for the election is frozen…

      But no, bombing hospitals that you yourself built bunkers under and “imprisoning” (not hostages!) women and children sound like the cheaper, more effective and morally high ground way of getting rid of Hamas.

      • DoomBot5@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        Wtf are you talking about? Elections aren’t held because Hamas won’t let them happen. Money is frozen because Hamas is a terrorist organization. Voting machines won’t be useful because Hamas will dismantle them for rocket parts and money.

        • randon31415@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          Yes, because plastic boxes and paper slips can easily be turned into rockets, and there is no way of selectively unfreezing money for particular purposes in Gaza without Hamas stealing it.

          And why wouldn’t Hamas want elections NOW, after the population has been bombed and genocided into supporting them? Just imagine right after 9/11, could you fathom voting for someone that wanted to “work toward peaceful relations with Al qaeda?”

          • Microw@lemm.ee
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            8 months ago

            Hamas doesnt want elections now because they want elections in the West Bank as well. They need no elections in Gaza because they have total control of Gaza either way.

            Hamas didnt do elections in Gaza for years, and they Sure enough didnt do elections when the people of Gaza protested against them this summer.

    • teichflamme@lemm.ee
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      8 months ago

      Really as simple as that.

      These people would cry in their basements if they were sharing a border with Hamas

      • fosforus@sopuli.xyz
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        8 months ago

        Sometimes war is necessary because some people want to ruin things more than some people want peace.

        • tygerprints@kbin.social
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          8 months ago

          I dunno, but I’m totally anti-war even if there are some people (terrorists, criminals, republicans) who want to ruin things for everyone else. I’ll never support Israel in their brutal retaliation against Gaza but I could never support any Palestinians who lug weapons around or use them to hurt others either. What is clear is that giving men guns or weapons guarantees an outbreak of war (they aren’t going to use them to make nice lamps for the living room). My bumper sticker says, to make peace you have to prepare for peace. I guess that’s too hard in this world.

          • fosforus@sopuli.xyz
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            8 months ago

            I think that is a 100% admirable position and its only weakness (sadly a big one) is that not everyone thinks like that.

            • tygerprints@kbin.social
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              8 months ago

              Thank you and I agree that is the fatal weakness of my argument. But, in a way that’s why I feel the need to make it. It’s like putting a pat of butter on an ear of corn, hopefully some of it will melt and sink in if people think about it enough.

      • Kornblumenratte@feddit.de
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        8 months ago

        This is Chamberlain in October 1938, returning from Munich to London, waving the Munich Agreement, confident to have appeased Hitler by betraying Czechoslovakia and to have secured eternal peace for Europe. Worked like a charm for 11 month.

  • DoomBot5@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    Hmm, how about that ceasefire that was ongoing until October 7th? That’s not even to mention the number of ways Hamas broke the current ceasefire that Israel let slide.

    • OtakuAltair@lemm.ee
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      You realize Gaza has been an open-air prison the whole time right? And you’re trying to deny the natives’ right to fight back against colonizers and settlers?

      Theodor Herzl, founder of Zionism, was just a racist colonizer, and saw it as bringing ‘civilization’ to ‘barbarians’ as the rest of Europe did when they were colonizing and enslaving Africa and Asia:

      “We should there form a portion of a rampart of Europe against Asia, an outpost of civilization as opposed to barbarism. We should as a neutral State remain in contact with all Europe, which would have to guarantee our existence.” Source [II]

      That is exactly what’s happening right now. All for European and US military and economic interests in the region; for their ruling class of capitalist corporations at least. Israel is literally a modern western colony committing genocide on natives.

      • foenkyfjutschah@programming.dev
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        8 months ago

        That is exactly what’s happening right now.

        you know well enough that your small excerpt of literature from 150 years ago is not manifesting itself today. if that would be a thing, let’s make it happen with the Manifest der Kommunistischen Partei.

        speaking of open-air prison, what’s your verdict on West-Berlin’s situation between 1961 and 1989 then? and how did Hamas and others get such an arsenal of weaponry into a prison?

        • OtakuAltair@lemm.ee
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          is not manifesting itself today

          Are you blind? US sending billions of dollars to Israeli military so they can colonize Palestine and kill and displace hundreds of thousands of natives isn’t enough for you? Does Joe Biden himself have to spell it out for you?

          what’s your verdict on West-Berlin’s situation between 1961 and 1989 then?

          What the fuck does a 30 year period where 140 people died in Berlin in confrontations between the US and GDR have to do with this?

          US involvement? If that’s your point, you could bring up the Vietnam or Iraq wars where US invasions left 60k and 300k civilians dead respectively. The Berlin situation isn’t even comparable to the rest of the shit the US and Europe are responsible for.

          But sure, the GDR should’ve just let the US and FRG keep using West Berlin as a base of operations for spying on and sabotaging the Eastern Bloc. Even knowing how that ends.

          • foenkyfjutschah@programming.dev
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            8 months ago

            Are you blind?

            yeah, the screenreader is fine.

            Does Joe Biden himself have to spell it out for you?

            as a user of ad-blockers i can’t check your source. but i doubt that he proposes any of your allegations.

            btw, what fate do you have in mind for “native” jews and all those who had only one place to seek refuge when they were persecuted in Europe, Northern Africa, the Arab countries and Iran?

            What the fuck does a 30 year period where 140 people died in Berlin in confrontations between the US and GDR have to do with this?

            my idea was to point out the fact that an exclave is anything but a prison. but any allegory, be it as stupid as this one, is thankfully repeated by the couch fighters for the Palestinian cause.

            Even knowing how that ends.

            nah, we’d have kicked them asses to then burn in the eternal flames of the last war.

            • OtakuAltair@lemm.ee
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              8 months ago

              yeah, the screenreader is fine.

              Clearly not.

              i can’t check your source. but i doubt

              Yeah go fuck yourself lol