Is there some reason that we can’t work to have a more equitable society racially and economically? It’s not a zero sum game, we can care about and accomplish more than one thing at a time…
Exactly. Even if the real villain was capitalism all along (spoiler: it is), we can’t abandon all of these battles along the way in hopes of winning the war in the end. The fight will take generations and we need to win ground on multiple fronts to have any hope of real, honest to goodness, change.
How would one sustainably protect/save the Jews (and all the other victimized groups) without first dismantling the Nazi regime?
Sure you can free this camp and that camp without marching on Berlin, but if the machine, the source that propagates it and maintains it remains intact, you’re addressing a symptom of the primary cause and they’ll just build more camps.
If you resolve one social wedge, they’ll stoke another in it’s place through the government they fully captured decades ago. Why do you think they’re actively unresolving decades settled resolutions through their Federalist Society judges?
I’m just going to quote the comment that you are replying to, since you don’t seem to have read it.
Is there some reason that we can’t work to have a more equitable society racially and economically? It’s not a zero sum game, we can care about and accomplish more than one thing at a time…
I don’t agree that the sole cause of racial inequity is economic. If you only address the economic factors, then you will still be left with an unjust society. Again, what I am saying is that we can do more than one thing at a time.
To address your analogy, what you’re proposing would be like marching on Berlin and leaving the camps in place, and just assuming that the folks in the will be fine once you overthrow the Nazis without actually doing the work to make sure that is the case. In reality, allied forces liberated the camps in the process of marching toward Berlin. That is what I am trying to say. We need to dismantle all of the machinery of oppression, not just the economic parts.
Edit: This probably came across as unnecessarily combative. I’m going to take a step back from this thread for a while. Ya’ll stay nice.
For all the camps we’ve freed that get unfreed, abortion, civil rights, on and on, We NEVER seem to get around on marching on Berlin. In fact, Berlin has has been reinforcing its walls and turrets unopposed for over 50 years. They do make so many jobs after all. We hate the camps, but ignore the ones that commission them.
Reducing economical disparities will solve the so-called “racial” inequalities.
Affordable education, housing and care for all don’t necessitate discrimination, even positive.
When an university degree costs hundreds of thousands, the problem isn’t the ethnic makeup of the happy few who can afford it, it’s scarcity itself.
European state manage to fund a higher education for pretty much all of those that care to try it, it is not an impossible dream.
edit: to clarify, I don’t think ending affirmative action before making any general progress is a good idea or will do any good.
just to keep eyes on the prize and be aware of diversion tactics.
Sorry, in my mind forgetting about race problems meant that everyone stopped being racist and shit. The economic inequalities associated with race wouldn’t disappear overnight, but they would eventually go away since social safety nets would obviously benefit the poorest people the most. But basically that flip comment was imagining a world where everyone really was colorblind.
No worries. And yeah, in a world where everyone magically had no conscious or unconscious bias, I suppose that by fixing economic inequality we would eventually address most other inequities associated with race. And that’s nice to think about.
But I don’t think I have to tell you that we don’t live in that world, so the bias (conscious and unconscious) remains, and the systemic inequities also remain.
And it’s fine to imagine a better world, but if there are folks arguing that actually, addressing the plight of minorities is a distraction from the more important “class war” and that winning that fight will magically fix everything else, your comment comes across as more of the same.
Not to mention K-12 that isnt in literal ruin, so underfunded that becoming a teacher, what should be one of society’s most revered professions, is a life on the edge of poverty. How about our tent cities in every major city filled with our beaten, hopeless brothers and sisters our society throws away like garbage for the crime of not being effective enough capital batteries.
I could get into other stuff but there’s just too fucking much. Almost all of which stems from allowing insatiable greed to fester and metastasize until it became an aspirational trait and core value in the US. The Gorden Geckos/Mr Potters/Ebenezer Scrooges were elevated and deified and allowed to run a muck here and warp our nation and increasingly the world to their cancerous, antisocial vision, and everyone outside of the owner class lost, even most who are their most zealous defenders.
Honestly, if we could stop this cultural race war for like two seconds we’d have a way better society. I just went healthcare end high speed rail.
Is there some reason that we can’t work to have a more equitable society racially and economically? It’s not a zero sum game, we can care about and accomplish more than one thing at a time…
Exactly. Even if the real villain was capitalism all along (spoiler: it is), we can’t abandon all of these battles along the way in hopes of winning the war in the end. The fight will take generations and we need to win ground on multiple fronts to have any hope of real, honest to goodness, change.
How would one sustainably protect/save the Jews (and all the other victimized groups) without first dismantling the Nazi regime?
Sure you can free this camp and that camp without marching on Berlin, but if the machine, the source that propagates it and maintains it remains intact, you’re addressing a symptom of the primary cause and they’ll just build more camps.
If you resolve one social wedge, they’ll stoke another in it’s place through the government they fully captured decades ago. Why do you think they’re actively unresolving decades settled resolutions through their Federalist Society judges?
I’m just going to quote the comment that you are replying to, since you don’t seem to have read it.
I don’t agree that the sole cause of racial inequity is economic. If you only address the economic factors, then you will still be left with an unjust society. Again, what I am saying is that we can do more than one thing at a time.
To address your analogy, what you’re proposing would be like marching on Berlin and leaving the camps in place, and just assuming that the folks in the will be fine once you overthrow the Nazis without actually doing the work to make sure that is the case. In reality, allied forces liberated the camps in the process of marching toward Berlin. That is what I am trying to say. We need to dismantle all of the machinery of oppression, not just the economic parts.
Edit: This probably came across as unnecessarily combative. I’m going to take a step back from this thread for a while. Ya’ll stay nice.
For all the camps we’ve freed that get unfreed, abortion, civil rights, on and on, We NEVER seem to get around on marching on Berlin. In fact, Berlin has has been reinforcing its walls and turrets unopposed for over 50 years. They do make so many jobs after all. We hate the camps, but ignore the ones that commission them.
Reducing economical disparities will solve the so-called “racial” inequalities.
Affordable education, housing and care for all don’t necessitate discrimination, even positive.
When an university degree costs hundreds of thousands, the problem isn’t the ethnic makeup of the happy few who can afford it, it’s scarcity itself.
European state manage to fund a higher education for pretty much all of those that care to try it, it is not an impossible dream.
edit: to clarify, I don’t think ending affirmative action before making any general progress is a good idea or will do any good.
just to keep eyes on the prize and be aware of diversion tactics.
Sorry, in my mind forgetting about race problems meant that everyone stopped being racist and shit. The economic inequalities associated with race wouldn’t disappear overnight, but they would eventually go away since social safety nets would obviously benefit the poorest people the most. But basically that flip comment was imagining a world where everyone really was colorblind.
No worries. And yeah, in a world where everyone magically had no conscious or unconscious bias, I suppose that by fixing economic inequality we would eventually address most other inequities associated with race. And that’s nice to think about.
But I don’t think I have to tell you that we don’t live in that world, so the bias (conscious and unconscious) remains, and the systemic inequities also remain.
And it’s fine to imagine a better world, but if there are folks arguing that actually, addressing the plight of minorities is a distraction from the more important “class war” and that winning that fight will magically fix everything else, your comment comes across as more of the same.
Not to mention K-12 that isnt in literal ruin, so underfunded that becoming a teacher, what should be one of society’s most revered professions, is a life on the edge of poverty. How about our tent cities in every major city filled with our beaten, hopeless brothers and sisters our society throws away like garbage for the crime of not being effective enough capital batteries.
I could get into other stuff but there’s just too fucking much. Almost all of which stems from allowing insatiable greed to fester and metastasize until it became an aspirational trait and core value in the US. The Gorden Geckos/Mr Potters/Ebenezer Scrooges were elevated and deified and allowed to run a muck here and warp our nation and increasingly the world to their cancerous, antisocial vision, and everyone outside of the owner class lost, even most who are their most zealous defenders.