Finally: Stating that “Jews killed Jesus” is a factual claim.
Fact based on what evidence exactly? Interpretation of the Bible?
So someone that claims to hate the concept of religion is using the religious text from one religion as a rationalization to push the same narrative that hate groups promote.
No, it’s not hair splitting, it’s of fundamental importance if you are ever going to have a hope of discussing something conceptual like politics or ideology with someone.
I think it’s of fundamental important that you work on your critical thinking skills if you are ever going to have a hope of discussing something conceptual like politics or ideology with someone. Defending someone that hates similar things to what you hate can lead you down same bad pathways. You’re literally defending antisemitic “Christ killer” narratives using some very faulty logic around it being fine for someone that claims to dislike religion arguing based solely on religious texts.
You’re completely missing the point. A claim can be either factual or non-factual, whether the claim is correct is irrelevant in that regard. A factual claim can be supported or disproven by evidence, a non-factual claim cannot. Just the fact that you are disputing the quality of the purported evidence for the claim proves that the claim is factual, and can be discussed and proven/disproven by rational people that disagree without hating each other.
Defending someone that hates similar things to what you hate…
At no point did I say that I hate anything. In fact I wouldn’t say I hate any of the things discussed here. Just the fact that you think I do shows that you are confusing the discussion of a concept (whether a factual claim can be bigoted) with supporting that concept and possible consequences.
No, I never said anything about whether the statements were correct or not, what I said was that they can be discussed and proven/disproven without having an opinion about whether the people involved are good or bad people. Once again you are conflating the factual statement with the people making them, and attributing to them opinions they don’t have, because you seem to have a hard time separating the claims that are being discussed from your perceived consequences of those claims being correct. You also seem to have a hard time understanding that someone could be interested in discussing a factual claim, even though they don’t like the facts they find.
For the record: I haven’t looked into any evidence as to who killed Jesus, and frankly think that any historical evidence to the fact would likely be too old to be conclusive anyway. Finally, I don’t really care who killed him, that fact being established wouldn’t change the world, or my perception of it, by one bit.
For the record: I haven’t looked into any evidence as to who killed Jesus, and frankly think that any historical evidence to the fact would likely be too old to be conclusive anyway.
So you’re arguing without any familiarity of the evidence, just going along with a antisemitic narrative because it conforms to your feelings?
That’s just disingenuous. The entire point of all my comments has clearly been that whether or not the mentioned claim is true is irrelevant to the fact of whether it’s anti-Semitic, because it is a purely factual claim.
You made incorrect assumptions regarding whether I believe those claims, and as an anecdote I corrected your mistake.
My point stands: I don’t need to take a position as to whether the claim in question is true or false in order to argue that it is a factual statement that can be supported or disproven by evidence.
You seem to struggle with the idea of supporting a concept vs. supporting a concrete statement.
Fact based on what evidence exactly? Interpretation of the Bible?
So someone that claims to hate the concept of religion is using the religious text from one religion as a rationalization to push the same narrative that hate groups promote.
I think it’s of fundamental important that you work on your critical thinking skills if you are ever going to have a hope of discussing something conceptual like politics or ideology with someone. Defending someone that hates similar things to what you hate can lead you down same bad pathways. You’re literally defending antisemitic “Christ killer” narratives using some very faulty logic around it being fine for someone that claims to dislike religion arguing based solely on religious texts.
You’re completely missing the point. A claim can be either factual or non-factual, whether the claim is correct is irrelevant in that regard. A factual claim can be supported or disproven by evidence, a non-factual claim cannot. Just the fact that you are disputing the quality of the purported evidence for the claim proves that the claim is factual, and can be discussed and proven/disproven by rational people that disagree without hating each other.
At no point did I say that I hate anything. In fact I wouldn’t say I hate any of the things discussed here. Just the fact that you think I do shows that you are confusing the discussion of a concept (whether a factual claim can be bigoted) with supporting that concept and possible consequences.
No, I never said anything about whether the statements were correct or not, what I said was that they can be discussed and proven/disproven without having an opinion about whether the people involved are good or bad people. Once again you are conflating the factual statement with the people making them, and attributing to them opinions they don’t have, because you seem to have a hard time separating the claims that are being discussed from your perceived consequences of those claims being correct. You also seem to have a hard time understanding that someone could be interested in discussing a factual claim, even though they don’t like the facts they find.
For the record: I haven’t looked into any evidence as to who killed Jesus, and frankly think that any historical evidence to the fact would likely be too old to be conclusive anyway. Finally, I don’t really care who killed him, that fact being established wouldn’t change the world, or my perception of it, by one bit.
So you’re arguing without any familiarity of the evidence, just going along with a antisemitic narrative because it conforms to your feelings?
That’s just disingenuous. The entire point of all my comments has clearly been that whether or not the mentioned claim is true is irrelevant to the fact of whether it’s anti-Semitic, because it is a purely factual claim.
You made incorrect assumptions regarding whether I believe those claims, and as an anecdote I corrected your mistake.
My point stands: I don’t need to take a position as to whether the claim in question is true or false in order to argue that it is a factual statement that can be supported or disproven by evidence.
You seem to struggle with the idea of supporting a concept vs. supporting a concrete statement.