Edit: Blocked the author’s name, because it’s not my tumblr. I didn’t expect so many people to misinterpret it and respond in this way.

Edit 2: This is not from the same author, but it’s a reply to them. I think it might help clarify the post for those that are confused:

I normally don’t worry about usernames on tumblr, but since there’ve been some really out-of-pocket misconceptions in the thread, I don’t want anyone to harass them.

  • masterspace
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    10 months ago

    Lmao, what a dumbass post.

    “Oh my god what an easy solution, just convince all Israelites to leave”.

    Oh my god, why didn’t anyone think of that yet!?!?!?

    This sounds like the thought process of a 14 year old who read their first article on the subject.

    • iain@feddit.nl
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      10 months ago

      That is not what OP was saying at all. I don’t know what hypothetical person you’re quoting. OP wasn’t even talking about any solution. Just stating that the source of the problem isn’t that complicated. Sometimes a simple problem has a complicated solution.

      Nobody serious is asking for all the Israelis to leave. The solution to one ethnostate is not another ethnostate. We’re asking for a new state that truly treats all its citizens equally. And to have a tribunal of sorts to convict the people who committed war crimes. This is not an easy solution, but getting justice rarely is.

      • JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works
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        10 months ago

        But the post says it’s responding to claims that there isn’t a simple solution. That seems to indicate that OP is trying to present a simple solution, which we both agree there isn’t.

        • iain@feddit.nl
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          10 months ago

          Yeah it does. To be honest, that didn’t even register with me, because the rest of the post just talks about the cause, not the solution. Also it agrees with my experiences when discussion this topic. Quite a few people say it’s complicated and that just ends the discussion for them.

          Also any discussion about a solution must address the cause: as long as Israel occupies Palestinian land, they will face resistance.

      • masterspace
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        10 months ago

        It’s not a strawman, the post says the situation is simple, and then says to make other countries safe for Jews, implying they should just go to other countries.

        It’s either that they’re proposing a solution that that’s simple, or maybe the situation isn’t simple and easy to solve like their 14 year old self claims it is.

        • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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          10 months ago

          Why is it so much to ask to make every country feel safe for jewish people? Have the fascists won, or what?

          Because if your answer to “the jewish question” is a settler colonial ethnostate, you’re literally repeating fascist opinions.

          Edit: Also, they never said anything about “every Israeli” leaving Palestine. That’s the strawman bit. Your Motte-and-bailey argument didn’t go unnoticed.

          • masterspace
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            10 months ago

            Why is it so much to ask to make every country feel safe for jewish people? Have the fascists won, or what?

            No one has argued otherwise.

            Because if your answer to “the jewish question” is a settler colonial ethnostate, you’re literally repeating fascist opinions.

            No one has claimed that.

            Because if your answer to “the jewish question” is a settler colonial ethnostate, you’re literally repeating fascist opinions.

            That is the clear solution they’re implying, either that, or there isn’t a simple solution, and they’re a fucking moron for claiming that it’s a simple situation.

            • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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              10 months ago

              No one has argued otherwise.

              You have. That was the thesis, OP stated. You called that thefis naive.

              That is the clear solution they’re implying

              No, they’re implying the opposite: “Don’t commit genocide and set up an ethostate”. The “don’t” applies to both.

              • masterspace
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                10 months ago

                You have. That was the thesis, OP stated. You called that thefis naive.

                Lmao, no. OP’s thesis was that ‘the situation is simple, we just need to make everywhere safe for Jewish people’. That is naiive to the point of being an irrelevant non-sequitor.

                No, they’re implying the opposite: “Don’t commit genocide and set up an ethostate”. The “don’t” applies to both.

                No, they’re not, because they’re not talking about how simple it was in 1945-1947 to make the decision not do something, they’re describing the current situation as simple.

                Saying “well don’t get yourself into this situation”, is not useful, helpful, or remotely meaningful. Everyone is already aware of that. That goes hand in hand with it being a shitty situation.

      • masterspace
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        10 months ago

        When it says “Jewish people need a place to live so make every country safe for them”.

        If that’s not the solution being proposed then what solution is it proposing?

        If a solution isnt being proposed, then maybe the problem isn’t that simple.

        • LinkOpensChest.wav@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOP
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          10 months ago

          That’s not referring to displacing people though, now is it? Don’t you agree that we should address antisemitism in other nations? One branch of my family tree is Jewish, and you can rest assured I want them to feel safe here in the US.

          Edit: This is a troll

          • masterspace
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            10 months ago

            That’s not referring to displacing people though, now is it? Don’t you agree that we should address antisemitism in other nations?

            How is that a solution to the current situation?

            How about we make it so that everyone in every country has their basic needs met? Yeah that would be great, it’s also an irrelevant point to bring up while discussing how “simple” the Israel Palestine situation is.

            • LinkOpensChest.wav@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOP
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              10 months ago

              What’s simple is concluding that Israel is committing genocide. What’s simple is arriving at the conclusion that we shouldn’t try to “both sides” this situation when one state is clearly the oppressor.

              Imagine trying to “both sides” the indigenous situation in the US and Canada, or similarly trying to “both sides” Nazi Germany in the 1930s and 40s. Trying to “both sides” North and South Korea.

              There’s clearly one state that’s been consistently in the wrong, that even celebrates its atrocities.

              Edit: This is a troll

      • Johanno@feddit.de
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        10 months ago

        Well I see that it isn’t there written, but we have the one sided description of Israel invading Palestinian land and occupying it for 76 years.

        And then the recommendation to remove anti-semitism in other countries.

        This does imply that once other countries are safe the Israeli should leave.

        Also in my opinion if a country occupies an area for that long it belongs to them. No it isn’t fair and yes they took it by force. However they would not had to fight a war if they weren’t attacked by all surrounding countries.

        • LinkOpensChest.wav@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOP
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          10 months ago

          This does imply that once other countries are safe the Israeli should leave.

          I must have accidentally eaten something trippy because I’ve read so many texts and datasets in my life, and how you are extrapolating this is beyond me.

          Also in my opinion if a country occupies an area for that long it belongs to them

          So then for example, you agree that the US and Canada should continue engaging in the displacement and still ongoing genocide of Native Americans? Can you clarify this statement, please?

          • Johanno@feddit.de
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            10 months ago

            Well did the native Americans successfully claimed land their own and have a country that is recognised by other countries on the world?

            No? Sucks for them. I don’t support genocide and shit like that.

            In order to have a country and accepted borders you need other countries that recognise it. The borders then get defined by contracts or more often by war.

            • The_Sasswagon@beehaw.org
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              10 months ago

              The Americas are, as a continent, the site of mass genocide at the hands of Europeans. The intent was to eliminate the native peoples and their cultures, and this intent is both clear and the genocide is ongoing.

              This is the big stick philosophy you say you support, it commits atrocities on other human beings in the name of expansion, extraction, and recognition, and unfortunately the philosophy dominates many of our ways of life.

              That doesn’t mean it’s good, or right, or that it is the only way. We should hold ourselves to the standard we want to live by so we can break the cycles of abuse, and we should talk to each other and educate one another so we can deliver the best version of ourselves.

              Consider that not all people have always lived with modern ideas of property, nations, and hierarchy. These are, in the grand scheme of human history, pretty insignificant when faced with the vast array of societies and beliefs shared by people over thousands of years. All that is to say domination is not inevitable or necessary, we can choose to do otherwise and all be better off for it.

    • LinkOpensChest.wav@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOP
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      10 months ago

      On top of insulting my post for no reason, this user is also engaging in personal attacks. Obvious troll trying to start a flame war.

      Edit: This is a troll

      I don’t want to discuss Hamas because I don’t equate Hamas with Palestine, because first of all that’s Islamophobic. Moreover, abruptly referencing Hamas is a common tactic used by Israel and its supporters to deflect attention from the ongoing genocide and shut down conversations.

      Also, what kind of shitlord thinks it’s fine to be uncivil and offensive, as long as they explain why they’re being offensive and uncivil?

      • masterspace
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        10 months ago

        I clearly explained why I was insulting your post while insulting it.

        And you claimed the situation was entirely 1 sided, so I brought up the Hamas attack, you then stuck your fingers in your ears and repeatedly claimed that this wasn’t about Hamas. I got frustrated and responded emotionally before editing my post 10s later.

        Keep ignoring any voice you don’t want to hear though, I’m sure you’ll learn and grow as a human being that way.

        • Eyck_of_denesle@lemmy.zip
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          10 months ago

          You unfortunately did not provide any source tho. No one is talking about hamas here. Hamas isn’t the vetoing the solution to go back to 1967 borders it’s the US and israel. Oh wait did I just give you the solution, looks like I did.

          • masterspace
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            10 months ago

            Again, if you say the situation in Israel / Palestine is one sided, you are inviting people to bring up Hamas.

            If you’re going to deny that Hamas’ Oct. 7 attack happened, then that’s on you to provide sources. I’m not going to dignify someone asking for sources on basic facts that have been widely covered in literally every major and minor news source.

            • gregorum@lemm.ee
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              8 months ago

              Your failure to provide a reliable source for your claims is not my problem.

              If you cannot provide a reliable source of your claims, your claim will be dismissed.

              • masterspace
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                10 months ago

                I’m not but tell yourself whatever helps you sleep at night

                • Eyck_of_denesle@lemmy.zip
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                  10 months ago

                  You are tho. You have been very actively trying to play down Israel’s aggression. Either you are a zionist or a troll. 1 is a nuclear state that has the most advanced weaponry and backing from the biggest countries and financial aid from the whole world and the other is a resistance force that allegedly did bad things(which no one has said otherwise to you). Use your brain. And I think you are happy that you got your “solution” to a very “complicated” genocide.

                  • masterspace
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                    10 months ago

                    You are tho. You have been very actively trying to play down Israel’s aggression.

                    Literally have not. Quote me where I do.

                    1 is a nuclear state that has the most advanced weaponry and backing from the biggest countries and financial aid from the whole world and the other is a resistance force that allegedly did bad things(which no one has said otherwise to you).

                    Hamas mass murdered over 1000 civilians and promised to do it again and again until all Israelis are dead.

                    I’m not defending Israel responding by killing over 10,000 women and children, but to claim that it’s an entirely 1 sided situation is simply inaccurate, and to claim that the situation is simple is asinine.