• Murais@lemmy.one
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      10 months ago

      I’m voting for him as an avowed leftist.

      Besides impeding fascism, his reforms on student loans mean I’ll be debt-free with $0 payments in 10 years. That is a material improvement of my life that I am infinitely grateful for.

      But I still think he’s a piece of shit for aiding and abetting a genocide and would vote for another candidate if I meaningfully could.

      Politics is nuanced. 🤷

      • Trainguyrom@reddthat.com
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        10 months ago

        I have similar feelings. My student loans will be way easier to pay off with the new SAVE repayment plan and the IRA should help cover some well needed window replacements, and the very well needed furnace and air conditioner replacement. At a larger scale some of the bills he passed are greatly expanding rail and renewable energy both of which I greatly love to see. There’s a couple of new rail corridorsthat will connect me to friends and make it possible to go to places I want to go to by rail instead of driving so I’m very excited to have those options opening up in 10-15 years

        I didn’t get the free universal 3k schooling for my kids, nor the permanent expanded child tax credit. I didn’t get my student loan forgiveness (which at least was down to republican fuckery since the law was pretty clear in allowing it) and our tax dollars are going to a yet another oppressive regime in the middle east with the bonus of killing of thousands of kids

        Ultimately I’m not thrilled but it’s far more than I got under a Republican government and it’s far more than I actually expected under Biden

    • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      If a particular leftist isn’t rational enough to recognize the important of impeding the progress of fascism, at any level possible, its a vote that can probably be missed.

      If you have the power to impeded fascism in any way, and you choose not to do so, I’m don’t believe you are a leftist.

      • GilgameshCatBeard
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        10 months ago

        But they will still call themselves leftists, which muddies the water and makes it impossible to actually tell.

        • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          10 months ago

          What is a leftist to you though? I’m not arguing for this position, but there are different beliefs in electoralism, there are leftists who believe legitimazing the system through voting just cements the dominant power further. By abstaining from voting or letting someone unpopular be elected it weakens the state structure which some see as a more efficient path to the removal of the main class division.

      • Facebones@reddthat.com
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        10 months ago

        In 2016, Bernie was shafted in the primary to protect capitalistic interests. When challenged in court, the DNC won under the premise that they are a private organization that can do what they want and votes don’t mean shit.

        In 2024, we’re watching Biden sidestep Congress to fund genocide in Palestine.

        Democrats are fascists, putting a pride pin in their cap doesn’t change that.

          • Facebones@reddthat.com
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            10 months ago

            Give me a leftist anti-fascist candidate and I’ll vote for him. shrug “Leftists don’t want to vote for fascists OR fascists waving a pride flag so they don’t” isn’t the hot take you think it is. Every year, democrats lose voters because they refuse to go any further left than mid-right to placate the donor class and every year y’all go on these tirades about how y’all don’t need leftists anyway (as you simultaneously) blame us for Republican wins, usually in the same post.)

            If leftist votes are so critical it’d probably be a good idea to stop actively pissing on them, huh?

              • Facebones@reddthat.com
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                10 months ago

                I’m sorry, how is this different from a Trump speech, exactly? Dehumanization, outright falsehoods, false generalizations, personal insults, de-legitimization, etc.

                Democrats are fascist, and the US isn’t a democracy. It’s a right wing Corporatocracy and we’re in such late stage capitalism everyone’s taken their hoods off and saying the quiet part out loud.

                See ya after the downfall, bruddaman

                • GilgameshCatBeard
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                  10 months ago

                  Cool beans. Don’t cry when you’re blamed again like you were in 2016.

                  • Facebones@reddthat.com
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                    10 months ago

                    You can blame me all you want, but how voting works is you give people a suitable candidate to vote for and people vote for them because they’re a strong candidate supporting people’s needs and desires - not because you bully them.

                    The options are mid right, far right, or 3rd parties who get the goalposts moved everytime they meet requirements to participate in debates and ballots. I lose either way. YOU will lose because you ran a shit neolib and told everybody that thought that was a bad idea to fuck right off cause you don’t need em anyway. Enjoy your shocked pikachu face when the people you told not to vote with you don’t vote with you.

        • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          I agree. Its incredibly tough and an almost impossible task.

          We have the choice of diet fascism, or the full blown thing.

          We can buy some time if we stick with diet fascism. The only real solution is to get involved in the political process and try and change things. I think we’re in a highly ‘activated’ community, so I’m sure, along with others, I’m not the only politically involved person here. I think beyond physical training, doing your best to set yourself up to be independent from the requirements of the social system, and engaging in the political process, there isn’t much more I would promote doing. But those are also all very important things, especially becoming involved in the political process.

          You can run as an independent. Find a rural district. Become the dog catcher (or hell, become the sheriff).

        • Bytemeister@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.

          Fascism is not just people supporting things you don’t like.

          • Facebones@reddthat.com
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            10 months ago

            far right

            Certainly mid right

            authoritarian

            Try being left of Biden in a room full of Democrats.

            ultranationalist

            See above, Dems are resistant to any meaningful change because they believe USA #1. They wave their little equality flag but suggest overhauling a US system and see how quick they become conservative.

            centralized autocracy, militarism

            Even after a Trump presidency, we can’t reign in executive privilege because Dems are just as reliant on it. See: Biden sidestepping Congress to fund Israel, also…gestures broadly at America for militarism

            forcible suppression of opposition

            3rd parties have met requirements to be included on ballots and in debates before, dems were just as quick as Repubs to move those goalposts everytime they’re met. Also, 2016 - Bernie won the primary, no he didn’t shut up also we’ll go to court to show our voters they don’t mean shit

            belief in a natural social hierarchy

            I mean, that’s just capitalism and Dems are all in on defending that at all costs (See above)

            subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race

            Go to any thread discussing politics or Democratic function IRL and mention any political/social interest other than “Not Trump” or whatever the DNC flavor of the day is and watch how quickly you get told you’re a stupid baby. (Case in point, your reply - “You don’t have real concerns you just think fascism is anything you don’t like nyahhh”)

            strong regimentation of society and the economy.

            Again, capitalism, but politically - Any primary winner would have been rejected for Hillary in 2016 because they just owed her one, and here we are doubling down on Biden for a second term at 81 after 50 years in politics instead of, well, anybody else at all no matter how many people tell them how weak that play is.

            Democracy is not shutting out any people supporting things you don’t like.

      • Sybil@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        voting for fascist Democrats doesn’t impede fascism. implying that voting for evil people is rational, and therefore refusing to vote for evil people is irrational, is pure ad hominem.

    • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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      10 months ago

      I’m a leftist and I vote for dems, at least at the federal level or if a republican actually stands a chance of winning, and it isn’t a leftist vs an incumbent dem.

      Your point is invalid.

    • Jaysyn@kbin.social
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      10 months ago

      You’re wrong of course.

      Or gatekeeping, which would be pathetic.