All the butt hurt people watching their old GPU getting obsolete. Just do some quick google of “is 8GB vram enough” and there are so many break downs out there so I won’t get into details. PS4 is a joke comparison cause switch have even less ram and still there are games making to run on it. (like the newer Prince of Persia). Anyway, old GPUs days are numbered because of low VRAM and lack of mesh shader compatibility. Nvidia is basically doing a how stupid can the market go test.
Your argument is like, “why didn’t iphone release 16 but with 8gb storage and newest chip but cheaper cause I don’t take photo video and never use more than 2GB storage anyway.” These are “niche” side of spectrum that happen to like your product, do you open a new line just for them and break your own sales strategy? Or you stick with your own plan and see how much margin you can still keep? Like how Nvidia did with this one? Cause Nvidia has been doing this for quite some time, under equip the vram amount/bandwidth and still charge premium money. Especially with the 50/60 series and then it bleeds to higher end cards when compare to AMD equivalent.
The remarkable claim(even though fake) said “640KB ram is enough for anyone”. Sounds familiar?
Are you living in a gamer bubble? Most major phone manufacturers have lower spec budget phones, especially when it comes to other markets. Samsung released 24 phones in 2023, from 90EUR to 1899EUR. I can’t tell if you think rural farmers in Mozambique either don’t have mobile phones, or are all rocking an iPhone 16 ProSuperMaXtreme.
And for every 1 person playing Star Citizen, or Cyberpunk at 4K/240mhz, there’s probably 50 people playing Runescape or Lineage.
I think you read my comment the wrong way. Maybe I really suck at explain concept but here is my another attempt. Nvidia, like Apple have established mid-high end foot hold in terms of market share. They exploit that position by making product tiers you either pay up or go to the “inferior” brand. So even their “budget” card is really not up to the task if your Runescape player got hyped up one day by some trailer and saw the requirement in Rtx 3060 for min spec, “oh, my 3050 should still be able to run it” and boom reality check. (And maybe go back to runescape after getting disappointed and/or ask for refund since game runs like shit at minimum settings.)
It’s a trap product unless you are fully aware of what it can do and specifically acquire it for specific build(say, a retro console emu build that let you run games up to like WiiU/Xbox360). And you have way better option either in used market or the Intel arc is better than this crap.
For people with no budget to even buy a slightly future proof GPU, making this kind of purchase is worse than just go buy used ps4 or Xbox one from Craigslist/fb market place and still get a ton of games that usually come with the console.
Warning: I’m stressed and want to rant. Wall’o’text below.
I play Star Citizen (yes, I know, if you need proof my machine is real, at the very least I also play Stellaris and Cities: Skylines with hundreds of mods installed) successfully because I have 64GB of ram in my rig and a GTX 970, but so does my OneXPlayer have 64GB of RAM and it can’t run SC or anything else cutting-edge made in the last three years; it’s the GPU that makes the RAM worth it but its the RAM that is needed for it to work. This isn’t “butthurt”, this is a preparation to try and shift from an economy where people buy stuff like GPUs to an economy engineered so only rich people buy stuff like GPUs.
They knew damn well what they were doing when they jacked up prices mid-CoViD-19, because my devices are not there “because I’m rich”, they’re there because I’m disabled and can’t hold a job and I financially compensate for relying solely on what’s coming from my disability pension by only doing ANYTHING for entertainment through my computers. I have no TV that I personally own instead of using the living room (yes, I live with my parents, and no, you don’t get to judge that anymore when my non-disabled brother is living away from home and hasn’t been able to get a job in the largest city in the province for over 3 months and tons of layoffs are happening) and my personal living area is about the size of a hotel room and half-stuffed with things my parents are storing. I am not rich, I just know how to efficiently spend my disposable income, and even then I haven’t been able to buy anything since before December.
When someone who is a gamer by hobby, is mostly unstressed and intelligent enough to at least scrape together the hefty amount of cash to pre-order a portable gaming PC, can’t avoid the constant “limited edition”-ness in everything that the only way to enjoy most games is to start from its beginnings and stick with it while hoping it will pan out (I fully admit that I stuck with Star Citizen through some of the project’s most unflattering times, and that’s not a small risk or a reasonable luxury for most people), and the alternative is to learn how to program from modding communities that are often toxic or near-absent… This isn’t about “normal” profitering, they’re trying to go in for the fucking kill. Don’t let them, if they can take your circus away without you being able to stop them then they can take your bread too and you will starve to death, even if that is a starvation of the mind by forcing everything back into linear, cookie-cutter mass media. We have not always been at war with Capitalism, but we are at war with it now because Big Mun Mun is watching, Big Mun Mun knows no ideology and no nation, and Big Money has always wanted to be at war with us.
Power grabs ruin FUCKING everything. People who power grab ruined Communism (see: Stalin), and then Democracy (see: Nixon). Then they even ruined Capitalism (see everything that happened after 9/11). And if power grabs ruin everything, then powergrabbers are exactly the kind of assholes who want anarchy, because a baseline of anarchy is just a beacon of political power for selfish people to take by force and thus ruin as well.
God I hope I’m lucky enough to live to see some sort of actual standard for the metaverse version of the internet. It’s so much harder to dismiss someone and not get called out on it if you can only talk to them like a person and not a fucking png and a bunch of worthless words. Reality doesn’t like that I don’t like the society I live in but I don’t have the ability to simply make a society without spare land or shittons of money? Fuck reality. I’ll live in a metaverse the rest of my life, even if I have to do it with older equipment or give up every non-VR luxury I enjoy. The 4th Matrix movie had a point, escapism is escaping to true freedom, not “accepting” “reality” for what it currently is, but everyone in the writing industry has been shying away from escapism for like 8 years now and telling everyone to face reality no matter how painful, so that nobody has a “valid” reason to ask for things to be better other than “there’s no such thing as better in ANY reality” for who knows why.
Don’t worry too much, if a VR society happens I think it’ll likely arise from here, the FediVerse. I don’t think we’re doomed, I think we need to rollback the internet in some respects, make open source software the norm for all indispensable software, and that every time the corporations have gotten caught trying to rob us since ~1995, less people remain willing to trust centralized and closed-source platforms. I look forward to a future where we realize that what people feared VR would become is actually what Social Media is and what we hoped Social Media would do - circa the mid-00s - is what VR could actually do.
I’m just frustrated that at this point the reason there hasn’t been a fucking revolt is because in 1950 we thought for the first time that we had a perfect system and then whether you were in America or in the former USSR we all saw that system(s) break and realized we didn’t have a better option to replace it still and no one was going to be a George Washington or Karl Marx this time and risk a legacy of a failed society by proposing that a radical new way of life could make everything more fair. I think we as a species might need to start taking a cue from the Civilization series and classify governments as a technology that requires research efforts and periodic replacement, and as a utility and resource supply that must be maintained, not as an investment of any sort.
Government is SUPPOSED to lose money and cost businesses money. It’s SUPPOSED to either get taxes or maintain the amount of money in circulation so that taxes are unnescessary (Why not both? Redundancy is a good safety measure!). It’s SUPPOSED to be a job, and if that’s boring then at least have the f-ing decency to make your “game” have a high score based on “happiest unmanipulated population” and not “PvP Kill-to-Death Ranking”. I honestly don’t know why we let our politicians not be reduced to Tropico players and why our OpenTTD players aren’t hired to beautify our cities without overspending, but I will say this; If I break a campaign promise in a hypothetical political career, I’ll try to at least say “this is why” and “the reason I admit this won’t work is because if I or anyone else in this position has no consistent and good faith argument tendency to do so, they should be assumed to be hiding something because unabused power attracts bullies like honey”.
In short, humans don’t destroy everything we touch, we just forget or refuse to maintain what we create by our touch and that unfortunately applies to the on-topic GPUs as much as almost everything humans are failing at right now.
Disclaimer: I fully support universal basic income even though I am in the higher tax bracket. Because of people needs buffer during those mass layoff(in case where unemployed benefit doesn’t really cover basic living cost) and disabled/retired people without support.
Modern computer tech trend is based on 4 basics:
more instructions run per second
smaller size
more operating(ram/vram)/storage space
use less energy per TFLOP
Not all newer release gets all 4 checked but that’s the goal. Computer component actually have longer life spam compare to all other tech gadget that comes with processor. In example, your 970 is released 10 years ago 2014, and during this period of time, I am on my 4th phone not because I chase newer one, but because the battery degradation and I happen to had a nexus that battery died after a year. Average shelf life of modern phone battery is around 3~5 years. The thing is, as a video game developer myself, we are constantly struggle with that power creep as well. (steam hardware survey helped a lot honestly.)
do we use the newer features? new example would be mesh compute shader which some older cards doesn’t have those circuits. By using some newer feature you automatically cut away certain population that owns older hardware. (SpiderMan 2 is PS5 exclusive
do we support older hardware? what can we cut to still maintain our vision and craft quality. (ie, we can’t push so far that low spec become a ps1 era game, it’s simply not feasible and actually the art dept will hunt you down. )
how do we balance the game for low to ultra spec. (ie. in FPS, there are cheats to disable bush or grass rendering, but make grass/bush not render helped frame rate a lot, thus if you allow it ultra spec people still play at low grass settings for better visibility. If you disallow it then your min spec needs to bump up to support the minimum amount your game needs to render. )
So it’s not really why game developer no longer wants to make game compatible with older hardware, there are plenty retro style or clever use of graphic that can still run on older hardware. It’s ultimate the time/cost and return of investment calculation. We don’t work for computer component manufacturer, we survey the market, see how we can make games up to our standard and try to reach as many potential customer. It’s the same for all other software based companies. And for smaller company that can’t afford to build their own engine, when you use Unreal or Unity, even without putting anything into the game, it already comes with a min spec before you build your first prototype just to support say, rendering 1 light and 1 square ground plane. And anything you then put into the game will slowly churn away the HW budget(storage, ram/vram, frame time).
Like you, many companies simply wants to make money and survive, as they aren’t really big enough to make any of those decisions. (like the average battery shelf life)
Wait, when I said game in quotes (“game”) I was referring to politics and Big Tech’s biggest players. Sorry about that, when it comes to actual video games I was not trying to demand particular content, just a movement away from grimdark.
To be fair, my OneXFly is a “third device” for me, I use a cheap laptop to write (yes, I write sci-fi) and the gaming rig has been a string of rigs since 2012 but I sold my share of a Steam Deck to my younger brother and my Rog Ally was supposed to replace it until two of them died on me (fortunately under warranty), so I’ve only owned a gamerdeck of any sort for the past 18 or so months.
lol, you might as well just use the integrated GPU at this point. 6GB means you can only play like PS4 or before era games as PS4 has 8GB ram.
That isn’t how any of this works.
All the butt hurt people watching their old GPU getting obsolete. Just do some quick google of “is 8GB vram enough” and there are so many break downs out there so I won’t get into details. PS4 is a joke comparison cause switch have even less ram and still there are games making to run on it. (like the newer Prince of Persia). Anyway, old GPUs days are numbered because of low VRAM and lack of mesh shader compatibility. Nvidia is basically doing a how stupid can the market go test.
I have a 24GB GPU. I exclusively play RPG’s/MMOs that don’t break 5GB of VRAM.
It seems Nvidia well understands “how stupid the market can go” when people think a 6GB card serves nobody.
Your argument is like, “why didn’t iphone release 16 but with 8gb storage and newest chip but cheaper cause I don’t take photo video and never use more than 2GB storage anyway.” These are “niche” side of spectrum that happen to like your product, do you open a new line just for them and break your own sales strategy? Or you stick with your own plan and see how much margin you can still keep? Like how Nvidia did with this one? Cause Nvidia has been doing this for quite some time, under equip the vram amount/bandwidth and still charge premium money. Especially with the 50/60 series and then it bleeds to higher end cards when compare to AMD equivalent.
The remarkable claim(even though fake) said “640KB ram is enough for anyone”. Sounds familiar?
Are you living in a gamer bubble? Most major phone manufacturers have lower spec budget phones, especially when it comes to other markets. Samsung released 24 phones in 2023, from 90EUR to 1899EUR. I can’t tell if you think rural farmers in Mozambique either don’t have mobile phones, or are all rocking an iPhone 16 ProSuperMaXtreme.
And for every 1 person playing Star Citizen, or Cyberpunk at 4K/240mhz, there’s probably 50 people playing Runescape or Lineage.
I think you read my comment the wrong way. Maybe I really suck at explain concept but here is my another attempt. Nvidia, like Apple have established mid-high end foot hold in terms of market share. They exploit that position by making product tiers you either pay up or go to the “inferior” brand. So even their “budget” card is really not up to the task if your Runescape player got hyped up one day by some trailer and saw the requirement in Rtx 3060 for min spec, “oh, my 3050 should still be able to run it” and boom reality check. (And maybe go back to runescape after getting disappointed and/or ask for refund since game runs like shit at minimum settings.)
It’s a trap product unless you are fully aware of what it can do and specifically acquire it for specific build(say, a retro console emu build that let you run games up to like WiiU/Xbox360). And you have way better option either in used market or the Intel arc is better than this crap.
For people with no budget to even buy a slightly future proof GPU, making this kind of purchase is worse than just go buy used ps4 or Xbox one from Craigslist/fb market place and still get a ton of games that usually come with the console.
Warning: I’m stressed and want to rant. Wall’o’text below.
I play Star Citizen (yes, I know, if you need proof my machine is real, at the very least I also play Stellaris and Cities: Skylines with hundreds of mods installed) successfully because I have 64GB of ram in my rig and a GTX 970, but so does my OneXPlayer have 64GB of RAM and it can’t run SC or anything else cutting-edge made in the last three years; it’s the GPU that makes the RAM worth it but its the RAM that is needed for it to work. This isn’t “butthurt”, this is a preparation to try and shift from an economy where people buy stuff like GPUs to an economy engineered so only rich people buy stuff like GPUs.
They knew damn well what they were doing when they jacked up prices mid-CoViD-19, because my devices are not there “because I’m rich”, they’re there because I’m disabled and can’t hold a job and I financially compensate for relying solely on what’s coming from my disability pension by only doing ANYTHING for entertainment through my computers. I have no TV that I personally own instead of using the living room (yes, I live with my parents, and no, you don’t get to judge that anymore when my non-disabled brother is living away from home and hasn’t been able to get a job in the largest city in the province for over 3 months and tons of layoffs are happening) and my personal living area is about the size of a hotel room and half-stuffed with things my parents are storing. I am not rich, I just know how to efficiently spend my disposable income, and even then I haven’t been able to buy anything since before December.
When someone who is a gamer by hobby, is mostly unstressed and intelligent enough to at least scrape together the hefty amount of cash to pre-order a portable gaming PC, can’t avoid the constant “limited edition”-ness in everything that the only way to enjoy most games is to start from its beginnings and stick with it while hoping it will pan out (I fully admit that I stuck with Star Citizen through some of the project’s most unflattering times, and that’s not a small risk or a reasonable luxury for most people), and the alternative is to learn how to program from modding communities that are often toxic or near-absent… This isn’t about “normal” profitering, they’re trying to go in for the fucking kill. Don’t let them, if they can take your circus away without you being able to stop them then they can take your bread too and you will starve to death, even if that is a starvation of the mind by forcing everything back into linear, cookie-cutter mass media. We have not always been at war with Capitalism, but we are at war with it now because Big Mun Mun is watching, Big Mun Mun knows no ideology and no nation, and Big Money has always wanted to be at war with us.
Power grabs ruin FUCKING everything. People who power grab ruined Communism (see: Stalin), and then Democracy (see: Nixon). Then they even ruined Capitalism (see everything that happened after 9/11). And if power grabs ruin everything, then powergrabbers are exactly the kind of assholes who want anarchy, because a baseline of anarchy is just a beacon of political power for selfish people to take by force and thus ruin as well.
God I hope I’m lucky enough to live to see some sort of actual standard for the metaverse version of the internet. It’s so much harder to dismiss someone and not get called out on it if you can only talk to them like a person and not a fucking png and a bunch of worthless words. Reality doesn’t like that I don’t like the society I live in but I don’t have the ability to simply make a society without spare land or shittons of money? Fuck reality. I’ll live in a metaverse the rest of my life, even if I have to do it with older equipment or give up every non-VR luxury I enjoy. The 4th Matrix movie had a point, escapism is escaping to true freedom, not “accepting” “reality” for what it currently is, but everyone in the writing industry has been shying away from escapism for like 8 years now and telling everyone to face reality no matter how painful, so that nobody has a “valid” reason to ask for things to be better other than “there’s no such thing as better in ANY reality” for who knows why.
Don’t worry too much, if a VR society happens I think it’ll likely arise from here, the FediVerse. I don’t think we’re doomed, I think we need to rollback the internet in some respects, make open source software the norm for all indispensable software, and that every time the corporations have gotten caught trying to rob us since ~1995, less people remain willing to trust centralized and closed-source platforms. I look forward to a future where we realize that what people feared VR would become is actually what Social Media is and what we hoped Social Media would do - circa the mid-00s - is what VR could actually do.
I’m just frustrated that at this point the reason there hasn’t been a fucking revolt is because in 1950 we thought for the first time that we had a perfect system and then whether you were in America or in the former USSR we all saw that system(s) break and realized we didn’t have a better option to replace it still and no one was going to be a George Washington or Karl Marx this time and risk a legacy of a failed society by proposing that a radical new way of life could make everything more fair. I think we as a species might need to start taking a cue from the Civilization series and classify governments as a technology that requires research efforts and periodic replacement, and as a utility and resource supply that must be maintained, not as an investment of any sort.
Government is SUPPOSED to lose money and cost businesses money. It’s SUPPOSED to either get taxes or maintain the amount of money in circulation so that taxes are unnescessary (Why not both? Redundancy is a good safety measure!). It’s SUPPOSED to be a job, and if that’s boring then at least have the f-ing decency to make your “game” have a high score based on “happiest unmanipulated population” and not “PvP Kill-to-Death Ranking”. I honestly don’t know why we let our politicians not be reduced to Tropico players and why our OpenTTD players aren’t hired to beautify our cities without overspending, but I will say this; If I break a campaign promise in a hypothetical political career, I’ll try to at least say “this is why” and “the reason I admit this won’t work is because if I or anyone else in this position has no consistent and good faith argument tendency to do so, they should be assumed to be hiding something because unabused power attracts bullies like honey”.
In short, humans don’t destroy everything we touch, we just forget or refuse to maintain what we create by our touch and that unfortunately applies to the on-topic GPUs as much as almost everything humans are failing at right now.
Disclaimer: I fully support universal basic income even though I am in the higher tax bracket. Because of people needs buffer during those mass layoff(in case where unemployed benefit doesn’t really cover basic living cost) and disabled/retired people without support.
Modern computer tech trend is based on 4 basics:
Not all newer release gets all 4 checked but that’s the goal. Computer component actually have longer life spam compare to all other tech gadget that comes with processor. In example, your 970 is released 10 years ago 2014, and during this period of time, I am on my 4th phone not because I chase newer one, but because the battery degradation and I happen to had a nexus that battery died after a year. Average shelf life of modern phone battery is around 3~5 years. The thing is, as a video game developer myself, we are constantly struggle with that power creep as well. (steam hardware survey helped a lot honestly.)
So it’s not really why game developer no longer wants to make game compatible with older hardware, there are plenty retro style or clever use of graphic that can still run on older hardware. It’s ultimate the time/cost and return of investment calculation. We don’t work for computer component manufacturer, we survey the market, see how we can make games up to our standard and try to reach as many potential customer. It’s the same for all other software based companies. And for smaller company that can’t afford to build their own engine, when you use Unreal or Unity, even without putting anything into the game, it already comes with a min spec before you build your first prototype just to support say, rendering 1 light and 1 square ground plane. And anything you then put into the game will slowly churn away the HW budget(storage, ram/vram, frame time).
Like you, many companies simply wants to make money and survive, as they aren’t really big enough to make any of those decisions. (like the average battery shelf life)
Wait, when I said game in quotes (“game”) I was referring to politics and Big Tech’s biggest players. Sorry about that, when it comes to actual video games I was not trying to demand particular content, just a movement away from grimdark.
To be fair, my OneXFly is a “third device” for me, I use a cheap laptop to write (yes, I write sci-fi) and the gaming rig has been a string of rigs since 2012 but I sold my share of a Steam Deck to my younger brother and my Rog Ally was supposed to replace it until two of them died on me (fortunately under warranty), so I’ve only owned a gamerdeck of any sort for the past 18 or so months.