You see, communism, in theory, is great. The biggest problem is that it requires a benevolent authority to determine what is provided based on what is needed and wanted.
This is a problem because usually communist countries are structured at authoritarian, where the head of state, a person, usually some guy, is in charge of such things, generally with the help of those in the government. Being human and innately flawed and selfish, all communist systems thus far, seem to follow the same trend of exploitation and indentured servitude for the majority of the populous, meanwhile the “upper class”, mainly the elite and the person’s that make up the government live in luxury. More for them and the bare minimum for everyone else.
If this human factor problem could be resolved, then communism would be a great system. Everyone shares in the wealth and success of their countrymen. But since people are the cornerstone of any government, the system will always be prone to exploitation of the people.
As for Stalin specifically, I don’t see him or his actions as notably different than any other communist dictator. They are all equally terrible people for very different human rights crimes.
I like the idea of communism, but I wouldn’t trust any single person to be in charge… I wouldn’t even trust a coalition of people to run it. It would need the involvement of enough people from the population from all different walks of life to essentially vote on policy changes constantly in order to ensure that no individual or group of individuals is unfairly benefiting from the situation, which, that, in and of itself, would be a nightmare to try to put together, manage, coordinate, and abide by.
Capitalism under democracy isn’t a picnic, but at least there’s enough responsibility imposed on the system by the population that is being governed, that any exploitation is generally slowed at least, or eliminated at best (often the former and not the latter).
I… have a lot to say and not enough energy left to say it.
I would suggest that you’re conflating communism with Marxism-Leninism, which is a common mistake, since the SovUnion spent a good 70 years trying to make them synonymous (and their capitalist enemies being more than happy to assist), and that you should look into non-ML systems.
Your main critique is the same reason capitalism doesn’t work, eventually money begets power which buys up competition, markets get cornered and it turns into cronyism.
Yep. People are the problem. Plain and simple. As the old saying goes, power corrupts.
Taking the USA as an example, since they’re the most vocal about capitalism and democracy, the fact that it took them as long as it did to identify that smoking causes cancer and a slew of other ailments because of tobacco group lobbying is the most direct and pure example I can find of how the system is both corrupted by the people who run it, and balanced by the fact that the people still have a say. For years, the dangers of tobacco products, which we have and share as common knowledge, were either obfuscated or downright refuted by those in power to do anything about it. The fact is, tobacco is bad for you. But for years, even doctors would prescribe cigarettes to relieve common ailments…
In current times, I’m certain many of the same type of situation is happening, it will just be years before it’s made clear who was falsifying information and trying to deceive the public into believing that things that are actively harming the public, are actually good, or vice versa. IMO, this is happening with the environment right now, global warming and the electrification of most things like vehicles and whatnot. I have my own theories on who is lying and who is telling the truth, and who is ultimately responsible for the rising global mean temperature and destruction of the environment, which I won’t get into right now. Simply put, these situations have existed for a very long time and eventually the truth does emerge… At least, it has so far. That speaks to my point that democracy can, at the very least slow down the damage that otherwise could be caused.
It’s an interesting phenomenon to watch unfold, again and again. It would seem that the majority does not learn from history and is therefore doomed to repeat it, taking the rest of us along for the ride.
AI inherits the flaws of the people that program it, and feed it training data.
Further current AI doesn’t understand jack shit, or even think. At a very gross oversimplification, It’s a very complicated decision tree looking at patterns, what it doesn’t about those patterns depends on what it was programmed to do
I genuinely don’t think state-communism is possible without deep corruption and exploitation, or humans not being in charge. 100-odd people in a commune working together can make it work together, but then you’re just easy pickings for bandits/gangs, or state violence from outside conventional forms of government.
Inflate the population and then all sorts of sociological problems crop up that require intra-system violence/coercion to prevent the whole system crumbling down when everyone wants to be a grief councilor or artist, but all these mfs need to eat so a lot of somebodies are working the fields against their will.
The ills of capitalism are obvious to those living under it, but talk to someone who lived in the USSR and they’re very likely not charitable about the government they lived under either.
exactly the points i always make. at the moment, our best shot is a democratic society with well-regulated capitalism (be it by workers unions, trade limitations like the japanese car import limits in the US, and things like universal healthcare and monetary aid for unemployed people)
I’ve been to Cuba. I’ve never seen such a shit show in my life. There were still wealthy and the large majority were dirt poor.
Police everywhere. Military everywhere. Havana smelled horrible and there were massive food shortages.
That said the people were friendly. They talked how they wish they could go to America but they can’t.
It was sad. My polish friends described polish communism the same way and they were fairly high up in the party. As soon as they had the chance to defect they did.
I don’t know where in my post you thought I was in support of communism in general beyond the idealistic concept of what it could be. In every way, it is a shit show mainly because of the people that are making the decisions.
In no way am I advocating for communism over capitalism/democracy. I’m just giving an analysis from a fairly neutral viewpoint.
Funny, because data shows almost the exact opposite. Conditions in Ex-Soviet countries were worse for decades after the collapse, and some of them still haven’t returned to pre-collapse levels. The majority of people in the majority of former USSR republics hold positive memories of the Soviet Union, and majorities even believe that life was better when the Union was around.
You see, communism, in theory, is great. The biggest problem is that it requires a benevolent authority to determine what is provided based on what is needed and wanted.
This is a problem because usually communist countries are structured at authoritarian, where the head of state, a person, usually some guy, is in charge of such things, generally with the help of those in the government. Being human and innately flawed and selfish, all communist systems thus far, seem to follow the same trend of exploitation and indentured servitude for the majority of the populous, meanwhile the “upper class”, mainly the elite and the person’s that make up the government live in luxury. More for them and the bare minimum for everyone else.
If this human factor problem could be resolved, then communism would be a great system. Everyone shares in the wealth and success of their countrymen. But since people are the cornerstone of any government, the system will always be prone to exploitation of the people.
As for Stalin specifically, I don’t see him or his actions as notably different than any other communist dictator. They are all equally terrible people for very different human rights crimes.
I like the idea of communism, but I wouldn’t trust any single person to be in charge… I wouldn’t even trust a coalition of people to run it. It would need the involvement of enough people from the population from all different walks of life to essentially vote on policy changes constantly in order to ensure that no individual or group of individuals is unfairly benefiting from the situation, which, that, in and of itself, would be a nightmare to try to put together, manage, coordinate, and abide by.
Capitalism under democracy isn’t a picnic, but at least there’s enough responsibility imposed on the system by the population that is being governed, that any exploitation is generally slowed at least, or eliminated at best (often the former and not the latter).
I… have a lot to say and not enough energy left to say it.
I would suggest that you’re conflating communism with Marxism-Leninism, which is a common mistake, since the SovUnion spent a good 70 years trying to make them synonymous (and their capitalist enemies being more than happy to assist), and that you should look into non-ML systems.
Your main critique is the same reason capitalism doesn’t work, eventually money begets power which buys up competition, markets get cornered and it turns into cronyism.
Yep. People are the problem. Plain and simple. As the old saying goes, power corrupts.
Taking the USA as an example, since they’re the most vocal about capitalism and democracy, the fact that it took them as long as it did to identify that smoking causes cancer and a slew of other ailments because of tobacco group lobbying is the most direct and pure example I can find of how the system is both corrupted by the people who run it, and balanced by the fact that the people still have a say. For years, the dangers of tobacco products, which we have and share as common knowledge, were either obfuscated or downright refuted by those in power to do anything about it. The fact is, tobacco is bad for you. But for years, even doctors would prescribe cigarettes to relieve common ailments…
In current times, I’m certain many of the same type of situation is happening, it will just be years before it’s made clear who was falsifying information and trying to deceive the public into believing that things that are actively harming the public, are actually good, or vice versa. IMO, this is happening with the environment right now, global warming and the electrification of most things like vehicles and whatnot. I have my own theories on who is lying and who is telling the truth, and who is ultimately responsible for the rising global mean temperature and destruction of the environment, which I won’t get into right now. Simply put, these situations have existed for a very long time and eventually the truth does emerge… At least, it has so far. That speaks to my point that democracy can, at the very least slow down the damage that otherwise could be caused.
It’s an interesting phenomenon to watch unfold, again and again. It would seem that the majority does not learn from history and is therefore doomed to repeat it, taking the rest of us along for the ride.
Could we develop an AI to be our communist overlord?
Please no.
That’s a hard nope.
AI inherits the flaws of the people that program it, and feed it training data.
Further current AI doesn’t understand jack shit, or even think. At a very gross oversimplification, It’s a very complicated decision tree looking at patterns, what it doesn’t about those patterns depends on what it was programmed to do
I genuinely don’t think state-communism is possible without deep corruption and exploitation, or humans not being in charge. 100-odd people in a commune working together can make it work together, but then you’re just easy pickings for bandits/gangs, or state violence from outside conventional forms of government.
Inflate the population and then all sorts of sociological problems crop up that require intra-system violence/coercion to prevent the whole system crumbling down when everyone wants to be a grief councilor or artist, but all these mfs need to eat so a lot of somebodies are working the fields against their will.
The ills of capitalism are obvious to those living under it, but talk to someone who lived in the USSR and they’re very likely not charitable about the government they lived under either.
exactly the points i always make. at the moment, our best shot is a democratic society with well-regulated capitalism (be it by workers unions, trade limitations like the japanese car import limits in the US, and things like universal healthcare and monetary aid for unemployed people)
I’ve been to Cuba. I’ve never seen such a shit show in my life. There were still wealthy and the large majority were dirt poor. Police everywhere. Military everywhere. Havana smelled horrible and there were massive food shortages.
That said the people were friendly. They talked how they wish they could go to America but they can’t.
It was sad. My polish friends described polish communism the same way and they were fairly high up in the party. As soon as they had the chance to defect they did.
Capitalism under a democracy is pretty much a picnic to everyone who went through communism. Fuck this commie shit!
I don’t know where in my post you thought I was in support of communism in general beyond the idealistic concept of what it could be. In every way, it is a shit show mainly because of the people that are making the decisions.
In no way am I advocating for communism over capitalism/democracy. I’m just giving an analysis from a fairly neutral viewpoint.
Funny, because data shows almost the exact opposite. Conditions in Ex-Soviet countries were worse for decades after the collapse, and some of them still haven’t returned to pre-collapse levels. The majority of people in the majority of former USSR republics hold positive memories of the Soviet Union, and majorities even believe that life was better when the Union was around.