Your number leaves out all of the people whose pay rates are above minimum wage, but are still poverty wages. There is quite a large gap between minimum and poverty, and not in the direction that benefits the working class.
Furthermore, raising the minimum wage leads to people in that gap also getting raises. People can and do benefit tremendously from the minimum wage being raised, even if they have never personally worked at minimum wage. As such, the minimum wage is relevant to far, far more workers than are actually getting it.
Your number leaves out all of the people whose pay rates are above minimum wage, but are still poverty wages.
This is because minimum wage has nothing to do with this discussion
This is my original point.
Furthermore, raising the minimum wage leads to people in that gap also getting raises.
They’re already getting raises because wages are up across the board. There are two jobs for every person right now and that isn’t likely to change for a long time.
I’m sorry, how in the fuck is the minimum wage not related to the fact that rising prices and inflation are causing people to struggle financially? That’s like saying the tides have nothing to do with surfing.
And sure, wages are up, the problem is that if you bother to account for inflation and COL, the purchasing power they provide is down. That’s what people mean when they say “real wages.” I’m sure you know that on some level, even if for purposes of this discussion, you’re pretending not to.
I think you’re pretending not to understand the relevance of the minimum wage because two comments ago I said this:
Furthermore, raising the minimum wage leads to people in that gap also getting raises. People can and do benefit tremendously from the minimum wage being raised, even if they have never personally worked at minimum wage. As such, the minimum wage is relevant to far, far more workers than are actually getting it.
I mean, at least you acknowledged that I said it this time. Even if I’m now slightly less convinced that you deliberately aren’t getting it, because you still didn’t seem to understand what I was actually arguing.
They say it takes exponentially more effort to debunk bullshit than it does to spread it, and when I’m making a real effort to make a point and your rebuttal is basically “nuh uh,” that seems to hold true. Fortunately, I don’t have to type out the argument myself when I can just post Charlynn Teter’s excellent essay, sources included, about it instead. https://bpr.berkeley.edu/2021/01/30/no-more-lies-the-truth-about-raising-the-minimum-wage/ I look forward to how you “nuh uh” this.
First, and least important (but still important), this article is out of date
In California, 96 percent of workers who would benefit from the proposed minimum wage increase to $15 are over the age of 20, and 58 percent are over the age of 30
This data is not accurate after wage increases
Second, this article has nothing to do with what we’re talking about. I have nothing against raising the minimum wage. I think it should be tied to local cost of living and reassessed every 2 years.
What we’re talking about is that raising the minimum wage would not provide the price pressure on the labor market you think it will, because there are already more jobs than people and wages are already rising as a result (though slowing, in which case your argument may someday become relevant again).
The market is unlikely to shift away from labor for over a generation, barring some ludicrous advancement in AI and robotics. Our population is shrinking while our economy is growing. That’s bad for employers in price-sensitive markets but great for literally all employees (until they get old, but whatcha gonna do).
Raise the minimum wage. Go nuts. It won’t affect average wages in any significant way, because not enough people are on the minimum wage.
You are ridiculously uninformed while being supremely overconfident in your baseless opinions.
Giant fuckin oof on your part.
Here’s a simplified explanation of how the minimum wage can affect the labor economy:
Employment Levels:
Effect on Employment: When the government raises the minimum wage, it can lead to increased labor costs for businesses, particularly those in low-wage industries like retail and hospitality. This can result in a reduction in the demand for labor, as some businesses may cut jobs to offset the higher costs.
Effect on Unemployment: Critics argue that increasing the minimum wage may lead to higher unemployment, especially among low-skilled workers. Employers facing higher wage costs might be less willing to hire or retain workers, particularly those with fewer skills or less experience.
Wage Distribution:
Positive Impact on Low-Wage Workers: On the flip side, proponents of minimum wage increases argue that it helps low-wage workers by providing them with a higher income. This can contribute to poverty reduction and improve the standard of living for those at the bottom of the wage scale.
Potential Compression of Wage Structure: However, some economists caution that raising the minimum wage might lead to a compression of the overall wage structure. If the minimum wage increases significantly, there could be a ripple effect causing a narrowing of the wage gap between low-skilled and higher-skilled workers.
Inflation and Prices:
Inflationary Pressures: An increase in the minimum wage can contribute to inflationary pressures. As businesses face higher labor costs, they may pass on these costs to consumers through higher prices for goods and services. This, in turn, can impact the purchasing power of consumers.
Productivity and Innovation:
Incentive for Productivity Improvement: A higher minimum wage can create an incentive for businesses to invest in productivity improvements and automation to offset increased labor costs. This can lead to advancements in technology and innovation in the long run.
Regional and Industry Variances:
Differential Impact: The impact of changes in the minimum wage can vary across regions and industries. In areas with a lower cost of living, the same increase in the minimum wage might have a different impact compared to higher-cost regions.
The effects of minimum wage changes on the overall labor economy are complex and multifaceted and to offhandedly call it “NOT RELEVANT” is beyond moronic.
Might be time to go back and look at your highschool econ homework.
I appreciate that you want more frequent adjustments to the minimum wage. I am in full agreement. I think it should be assessed on a national level more so than local, because making it piecemeal like that leaves lots of open opportunities for bad actors to exploit it (think gerrymandered congressional maps), but I do appreciate that as far as that goes, we are largely in agreement.
That said, Teter’s essay addresses most of the other claims in your comment, with both argumentation and sources. Maybe you should read more of that and try addressing some of her other rebuttals to your points, rather than just ignoring them and repeating yourself endlessly? Then you might at least look a little bit less disingenuous.
While it’s true that less than 1.3% of people make minimum wage, it’s important to recognize that the minimum wage sets a baseline for the broader labor market. Even though a small percentage of workers are directly affected, the minimum wage often serves as a reference point for wage negotiations and can have a cascading effect on wages above the minimum. While the direct impact may be limited to a specific percentage of workers, the broader implications of minimum wage policies are relevant to a much larger economic context.
Your number leaves out all of the people whose pay rates are above minimum wage, but are still poverty wages. There is quite a large gap between minimum and poverty, and not in the direction that benefits the working class.
Furthermore, raising the minimum wage leads to people in that gap also getting raises. People can and do benefit tremendously from the minimum wage being raised, even if they have never personally worked at minimum wage. As such, the minimum wage is relevant to far, far more workers than are actually getting it.
This is because minimum wage has nothing to do with this discussion
This is my original point.
They’re already getting raises because wages are up across the board. There are two jobs for every person right now and that isn’t likely to change for a long time.
I’m sorry, how in the fuck is the minimum wage not related to the fact that rising prices and inflation are causing people to struggle financially? That’s like saying the tides have nothing to do with surfing.
And sure, wages are up, the problem is that if you bother to account for inflation and COL, the purchasing power they provide is down. That’s what people mean when they say “real wages.” I’m sure you know that on some level, even if for purposes of this discussion, you’re pretending not to.
Because a small enough people make.minimum wage that it has no bearing on overall price pressures for labor.
Idk why you think I’m “pretending” anything.
I think you’re pretending not to understand the relevance of the minimum wage because two comments ago I said this:
And you proceeded to act like I didn’t.
He’s a troll and not a good faith interlocutor so don’t expect honesty from him.
I understand you said it, but that doesn’t make it true.
It would be true if any significant number of people made minimum wage, but they don’t.
I mean, at least you acknowledged that I said it this time. Even if I’m now slightly less convinced that you deliberately aren’t getting it, because you still didn’t seem to understand what I was actually arguing.
They say it takes exponentially more effort to debunk bullshit than it does to spread it, and when I’m making a real effort to make a point and your rebuttal is basically “nuh uh,” that seems to hold true. Fortunately, I don’t have to type out the argument myself when I can just post Charlynn Teter’s excellent essay, sources included, about it instead. https://bpr.berkeley.edu/2021/01/30/no-more-lies-the-truth-about-raising-the-minimum-wage/ I look forward to how you “nuh uh” this.
Told ya he’s a troll.
A verbose troll, but still a troll.
So, couple things.
First, and least important (but still important), this article is out of date
This data is not accurate after wage increases
Second, this article has nothing to do with what we’re talking about. I have nothing against raising the minimum wage. I think it should be tied to local cost of living and reassessed every 2 years.
What we’re talking about is that raising the minimum wage would not provide the price pressure on the labor market you think it will, because there are already more jobs than people and wages are already rising as a result (though slowing, in which case your argument may someday become relevant again).
The market is unlikely to shift away from labor for over a generation, barring some ludicrous advancement in AI and robotics. Our population is shrinking while our economy is growing. That’s bad for employers in price-sensitive markets but great for literally all employees (until they get old, but whatcha gonna do).
Raise the minimum wage. Go nuts. It won’t affect average wages in any significant way, because not enough people are on the minimum wage.
You are ridiculously uninformed while being supremely overconfident in your baseless opinions.
Giant fuckin oof on your part.
Here’s a simplified explanation of how the minimum wage can affect the labor economy:
Employment Levels:
Effect on Employment: When the government raises the minimum wage, it can lead to increased labor costs for businesses, particularly those in low-wage industries like retail and hospitality. This can result in a reduction in the demand for labor, as some businesses may cut jobs to offset the higher costs.
Effect on Unemployment: Critics argue that increasing the minimum wage may lead to higher unemployment, especially among low-skilled workers. Employers facing higher wage costs might be less willing to hire or retain workers, particularly those with fewer skills or less experience.
Wage Distribution:
Positive Impact on Low-Wage Workers: On the flip side, proponents of minimum wage increases argue that it helps low-wage workers by providing them with a higher income. This can contribute to poverty reduction and improve the standard of living for those at the bottom of the wage scale.
Potential Compression of Wage Structure: However, some economists caution that raising the minimum wage might lead to a compression of the overall wage structure. If the minimum wage increases significantly, there could be a ripple effect causing a narrowing of the wage gap between low-skilled and higher-skilled workers.
Inflation and Prices:
Inflationary Pressures: An increase in the minimum wage can contribute to inflationary pressures. As businesses face higher labor costs, they may pass on these costs to consumers through higher prices for goods and services. This, in turn, can impact the purchasing power of consumers. Productivity and Innovation:
Incentive for Productivity Improvement: A higher minimum wage can create an incentive for businesses to invest in productivity improvements and automation to offset increased labor costs. This can lead to advancements in technology and innovation in the long run.
Regional and Industry Variances:
Differential Impact: The impact of changes in the minimum wage can vary across regions and industries. In areas with a lower cost of living, the same increase in the minimum wage might have a different impact compared to higher-cost regions.
The effects of minimum wage changes on the overall labor economy are complex and multifaceted and to offhandedly call it “NOT RELEVANT” is beyond moronic.
Might be time to go back and look at your highschool econ homework.
I appreciate that you want more frequent adjustments to the minimum wage. I am in full agreement. I think it should be assessed on a national level more so than local, because making it piecemeal like that leaves lots of open opportunities for bad actors to exploit it (think gerrymandered congressional maps), but I do appreciate that as far as that goes, we are largely in agreement.
That said, Teter’s essay addresses most of the other claims in your comment, with both argumentation and sources. Maybe you should read more of that and try addressing some of her other rebuttals to your points, rather than just ignoring them and repeating yourself endlessly? Then you might at least look a little bit less disingenuous.
While it’s true that less than 1.3% of people make minimum wage, it’s important to recognize that the minimum wage sets a baseline for the broader labor market. Even though a small percentage of workers are directly affected, the minimum wage often serves as a reference point for wage negotiations and can have a cascading effect on wages above the minimum. While the direct impact may be limited to a specific percentage of workers, the broader implications of minimum wage policies are relevant to a much larger economic context.