You’re abdicating responsibility by talking about “the system”. But the thing is, from an outside perspective, I don’t give two shits about your system. It’s not relevant to me at all. I never interact with it. I didn’t learn about it in school. It plays no role in my day to day life. I don’t care about it, and I don’t understand it (just like the average American doesn’t care or understand parliamentary systems in the Westminster tradition, for example). All I know is that you guys are a democracy (before Trump was elected you were considered one of the most stable democracies in the world) so there are channels for you to air your grievances and try to reform the system. And until Americans decide to do that, we (i.e. rest of the world) will hold you guys collectively responsible for the monster you have created.
Angry Americans can downvote me for saying this, but that is what the rest of the world is already doing, whether you like it or not. We are holding you responsible, and your reputation on the world stage has plummeted, severely and irrevocably, more than even the biggest Trump hating American seems to understand. We will never look at you the same again. We will never rely on you the same way had before. And individual Americans, when travelling, won’t be treated with the same automatic trust that you may have enjoyed before. These are simply the facts. If you don’t like this, then go fix your broken country.
All I know is that you guys are a democracy (before Trump was elected you were considered one of the most stable democracies in the world) so there are channels for you to air your grievances and try to reform the system.
“Was considered” by who, us? Our think tanks? Or do you mean, people who don’t know how our system works?
Look, I’m not interested in defending the American people by any means. But the people being assholes and the system being broken are two separate questions. Both can be true.
There are no channels where people in power listen to us.
There’s literally been studies like this Princeton study which found that the poor and middle class have effectively zero influence of what policies get enacted.
I could get into the myriad problems that contribute to the system working that way (aka “as designed”), but as you’ve expressed disinterest, I won’t bore you with the details. But if you don’t want to learn about it, then don’t try to lecture us on how “democratic” our system supposedly is. Assuming every country works like yours and that you know better than the people living there while choosing to remain ignorant about it is frankly a very American thing to do.
Yes, democratically. He was elected democratically twice. If you deny that Trump was elected democratically then you’re no better than the Trumpies who say Biden stole the 2020 election. And you think shilling for delusional conspiracies like that is going to make you look any better from an outsiders perspective? It doesn’t.
No I’m not abdicating anything when you have no idea how I’ve voted or my politics.
I understand a frustration with how the states have handled basic fucking governance. However I think you’re taking things a bit too far assigning all that blame on me personally. I have not abdicated anything by describing the reality of the situation. But again I get the frustration with Trump and conservatives running wild…
Yea you want to paint the whole country as foolish, I’m simply saying that’s a broad brush and reality is there a systemic imbalance that cannot be ignored. To ignore something as big as that is to over simplify things and it defeats your own argument of abdicating responsibility.
But bitch and moan all you like if it makes you feel better. It doesn’t really address the issue though.
However I think you’re taking things a bit too far assigning all that blame on me personally.
There’s a difference between blaming you personally and saying Americans, such as yourself, need to take responsibility for the situation you have collectively created. There’s a difference between assigning blame and assigning responsibility.
But bitch and moan all you like if it makes you feel better. It doesn’t really address the issue though.
Are you not getting it? This is not my issue to address. This is your country and your issue. Preaching to foreigners about the sins of the electoral college is moat here. I don’t give a shit about the electoral college. I care about how your country is treating the rest of us.
Here’s an analogy: imagine a man that’s acting out in public, and harming other people. When confronted about it he says, “oh, well, it’s not my fault because I have a lot of shit going in my personal life.” That might be the case. But is that an adequate response? No. Because the rest of us don’t care about his personal life. We care about how he’s acting out.
The same goes for the USA. Stop airing your dirty laundry and just get your shit together.
Oh so the issue is me taking personal responsibility for the Trump admin? Am I personally responsible for the Iraq war as well? I mean I personally voted against all that and Trump but you mean to say that I can do something to collectively make you feel better? Responsibility absolutely affects the whole country but you’re really just pissing into the wind with this half assed blame game… you feel the need to impugn people you’ve never met just to feel justified at picking a fight.
Im not picking a fight or even disagreeing with you, I’m simply mentioning how desperate your own argument is…
Again, I am not saying you are personally responsible, and blame is not the same as responsibility. But as an American, you do bear responsibility for the mess your country has created (in the sense that, if you do not try to stop it, you are complicit). Its the same as how everyday Germans in Nazi Germany had a moral responsibility to stop the Nazi regime, and those that didn’t bother or made excuses are rightly remembered as being complicit and as behaving in ways that were morally reprehensible. Except, unlike the Germans, you are not yet living in a dictatorship, so you still have democratic means of resolving this (for now). So you have even less of an excuse than the Germans did.
This should not he a hard concept for you to understand. Everyone else in the Western world, except for Americans apparently, seem to understand this quite fine.
You’re abdicating responsibility by talking about “the system”. But the thing is, from an outside perspective, I don’t give two shits about your system. It’s not relevant to me at all. I never interact with it. I didn’t learn about it in school. It plays no role in my day to day life. I don’t care about it, and I don’t understand it (just like the average American doesn’t care or understand parliamentary systems in the Westminster tradition, for example). All I know is that you guys are a democracy (before Trump was elected you were considered one of the most stable democracies in the world) so there are channels for you to air your grievances and try to reform the system. And until Americans decide to do that, we (i.e. rest of the world) will hold you guys collectively responsible for the monster you have created.
Angry Americans can downvote me for saying this, but that is what the rest of the world is already doing, whether you like it or not. We are holding you responsible, and your reputation on the world stage has plummeted, severely and irrevocably, more than even the biggest Trump hating American seems to understand. We will never look at you the same again. We will never rely on you the same way had before. And individual Americans, when travelling, won’t be treated with the same automatic trust that you may have enjoyed before. These are simply the facts. If you don’t like this, then go fix your broken country.
“Was considered” by who, us? Our think tanks? Or do you mean, people who don’t know how our system works?
Look, I’m not interested in defending the American people by any means. But the people being assholes and the system being broken are two separate questions. Both can be true.
There are no channels where people in power listen to us. There’s literally been studies like this Princeton study which found that the poor and middle class have effectively zero influence of what policies get enacted.
I could get into the myriad problems that contribute to the system working that way (aka “as designed”), but as you’ve expressed disinterest, I won’t bore you with the details. But if you don’t want to learn about it, then don’t try to lecture us on how “democratic” our system supposedly is. Assuming every country works like yours and that you know better than the people living there while choosing to remain ignorant about it is frankly a very American thing to do.
Save me the pity party. You guys democratically elected Trump. To act like Americans are just helpless victims in this is pathetic.
Edit: worth noting that you guys elected him twice. You guys knew what you were doing.
So you’re completely incapable of looking at things objectively, got it.
Not acting like this, at all.
Lol.
Yes, democratically. He was elected democratically twice. If you deny that Trump was elected democratically then you’re no better than the Trumpies who say Biden stole the 2020 election. And you think shilling for delusional conspiracies like that is going to make you look any better from an outsiders perspective? It doesn’t.
The US system is not democratic. I’m sorry if you think the existence of the electoral college is a “delusional conspiracy.”
Also sorry that you fell for US propaganda.
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Is that enough for a system to be considered democratic?
It’s wild how you can just change objective facts about the world by declaring the person saying them cringe.
It’s democratic enough for the rest of the world to hold Americans responsible for bringing Trump into power.
Stop with the cope and just admit that the American people fucked up. Your unwillingness to do that is what’s cringe.
No I’m not abdicating anything when you have no idea how I’ve voted or my politics.
I understand a frustration with how the states have handled basic fucking governance. However I think you’re taking things a bit too far assigning all that blame on me personally. I have not abdicated anything by describing the reality of the situation. But again I get the frustration with Trump and conservatives running wild…
Yea you want to paint the whole country as foolish, I’m simply saying that’s a broad brush and reality is there a systemic imbalance that cannot be ignored. To ignore something as big as that is to over simplify things and it defeats your own argument of abdicating responsibility.
But bitch and moan all you like if it makes you feel better. It doesn’t really address the issue though.
There’s a difference between blaming you personally and saying Americans, such as yourself, need to take responsibility for the situation you have collectively created. There’s a difference between assigning blame and assigning responsibility.
Are you not getting it? This is not my issue to address. This is your country and your issue. Preaching to foreigners about the sins of the electoral college is moat here. I don’t give a shit about the electoral college. I care about how your country is treating the rest of us.
Here’s an analogy: imagine a man that’s acting out in public, and harming other people. When confronted about it he says, “oh, well, it’s not my fault because I have a lot of shit going in my personal life.” That might be the case. But is that an adequate response? No. Because the rest of us don’t care about his personal life. We care about how he’s acting out.
The same goes for the USA. Stop airing your dirty laundry and just get your shit together.
Oh so the issue is me taking personal responsibility for the Trump admin? Am I personally responsible for the Iraq war as well? I mean I personally voted against all that and Trump but you mean to say that I can do something to collectively make you feel better? Responsibility absolutely affects the whole country but you’re really just pissing into the wind with this half assed blame game… you feel the need to impugn people you’ve never met just to feel justified at picking a fight.
Im not picking a fight or even disagreeing with you, I’m simply mentioning how desperate your own argument is…
Again, I am not saying you are personally responsible, and blame is not the same as responsibility. But as an American, you do bear responsibility for the mess your country has created (in the sense that, if you do not try to stop it, you are complicit). Its the same as how everyday Germans in Nazi Germany had a moral responsibility to stop the Nazi regime, and those that didn’t bother or made excuses are rightly remembered as being complicit and as behaving in ways that were morally reprehensible. Except, unlike the Germans, you are not yet living in a dictatorship, so you still have democratic means of resolving this (for now). So you have even less of an excuse than the Germans did.
This should not he a hard concept for you to understand. Everyone else in the Western world, except for Americans apparently, seem to understand this quite fine.