The Liberals aren’t woke leftists. Nor are they MAGA conservatives. They’re just sorta center, increasingly conservative but not particularly extreme. Not my ideal party but compared to what other countries have been electing I’d say it’s kind of a relief.
Ya’ll need to pay attention, then. They’re stripping back environmental protections “for the economy” and selling our shit to private companies, laying people off in a time when it’s already incredibly difficult to get jobs, and tried to help Air Canada by butting into the flight attendant strike to make it illegal and we’re all lucky that it didn’t work. “Elbows up” lost steam immediately and then we just fell in with China instead. So much of the good they did the last time was the NDP making them do it while Canadians bitched about the NDP “not doing anything”. They’re not “increasingly conservative” they are just conservatives and they are less and less afraid of showing it each cycle.
I’m so beyond over lazy, relativistic politics. Who the hell cares if they’re better than worst from other countries when we literally have a better party right here?
There are very real reasons why someone would vote for Carney Liberals over Poilievre Conservatives, and indeed liberals over conservatives in general. It’s intellectually dishonest and frankly does a disservice to yourself to overlook or dismiss these simply because you don’t understand them.
For example, marginal harm matters. Even if both parties serve capital, they’re not identical in courts, rights, climate policy, labor enforcement, etc. Also, time horizons matter. “Build the NDP” is a long-term project; “prevent a worse 4 years” is a short-term project and there is little doubt that Carney is the best person for the short term project (and perhaps the best person for economic restructuring in general). Most people are capable of rationally doing both short term and long term planning and decision making. And also, finally, coalitions in our government are a reality. In Canada, minority/parliament dynamics make “vote + apply pressure” a real lever. Treating all “lesser evil” as pure self-sabotage ignores that. Many Liberal voters can acknowledge the value of the NDP while also acknowledging their shortcomings. Many Liberal voters have voted NDP in the past when it made sense strategically.
And how is the NDP supposed be built if we keep not voting for them? Are they supposed to just do a bunch of work for free for a few decades? They basically already have, and they simply got loss of official party status as a reward for that.
The Liberals aren’t just boring, they’re actively harmful. I don’t want Poilievre anywhere near power either but I’m not so naive as to believe that this battle is over, or even progressing, just because we sacrificed our values again. They’ve become very close to the conservatives we were all supposed to be afraid of back in 2021, and their trajectory is that they’re getting worse, not better. If the Liberal voters are so wise, should they not be acutely aware of this fact?
You even admit that coalitions work and, I imagine, understand that the NDP used their leverage to get Canadians things that we needed when the Liberals weren’t going to on their own. They fight for us even when they aren’t in full control. How are they supposed to form a coalition without having any seats?
It’s always “now is not the time” with you lot. It’s cowardly and weak. You’re right that it’s going to take time, so we better start now if we want to see any change in the future. Yes, it will suck for a moment, but do you really believe that the solution is to make endless excuses every single election cycle?
Lol dam, straight. The NDP are like 16 year Olds who see the world through rose color glasses.
Instead of doing shit to make more jobs and better jobs, they would rather just make a bigger welfare program.
Andrea horwath , the former leader of ontario, ndp. Current mayor of hamilton. Worst fucking mayor I have ever seen. Blows a bunch of money on tiny home bulshit that flopped like old man dick. Raised property taxes in the city with the highest property tax already. Doesn’t seem to understand how everyone does lunch everyday with out having catering
Why? Was it all the stuff they got done when the only power they had was a coalition government? What was it? And Carney getting stuff done is better even though the stuff being done is bad? What about the Liberals and their constant lying, scheming, and persistent disdain for the working class make them a better choice?
Are for real? You cannot honestly be that stupid, can you?
Hey friend I, and many others here, may be sympathetic to the disrespect that the NDP gets, but your hyperpartisan and absolute rejection of other parties (and similarly- framed NDP boosting) comes across poorly.
Do you honestly believe the NDP is the only honest, principled and righteous party in the country? And you believe they would stay that way when they necessarily grew their tent in order to assume power?
The Liberals aren’t woke leftists. Nor are they MAGA conservatives. They’re just sorta center, increasingly conservative but not particularly extreme. Not my ideal party but compared to what other countries have been electing I’d say it’s kind of a relief.
Ya’ll need to pay attention, then. They’re stripping back environmental protections “for the economy” and selling our shit to private companies, laying people off in a time when it’s already incredibly difficult to get jobs, and tried to help Air Canada by butting into the flight attendant strike to make it illegal and we’re all lucky that it didn’t work. “Elbows up” lost steam immediately and then we just fell in with China instead. So much of the good they did the last time was the NDP making them do it while Canadians bitched about the NDP “not doing anything”. They’re not “increasingly conservative” they are just conservatives and they are less and less afraid of showing it each cycle.
I’m so beyond over lazy, relativistic politics. Who the hell cares if they’re better than worst from other countries when we literally have a better party right here?
There are very real reasons why someone would vote for Carney Liberals over Poilievre Conservatives, and indeed liberals over conservatives in general. It’s intellectually dishonest and frankly does a disservice to yourself to overlook or dismiss these simply because you don’t understand them.
For example, marginal harm matters. Even if both parties serve capital, they’re not identical in courts, rights, climate policy, labor enforcement, etc. Also, time horizons matter. “Build the NDP” is a long-term project; “prevent a worse 4 years” is a short-term project and there is little doubt that Carney is the best person for the short term project (and perhaps the best person for economic restructuring in general). Most people are capable of rationally doing both short term and long term planning and decision making. And also, finally, coalitions in our government are a reality. In Canada, minority/parliament dynamics make “vote + apply pressure” a real lever. Treating all “lesser evil” as pure self-sabotage ignores that. Many Liberal voters can acknowledge the value of the NDP while also acknowledging their shortcomings. Many Liberal voters have voted NDP in the past when it made sense strategically.
And how is the NDP supposed be built if we keep not voting for them? Are they supposed to just do a bunch of work for free for a few decades? They basically already have, and they simply got loss of official party status as a reward for that.
The Liberals aren’t just boring, they’re actively harmful. I don’t want Poilievre anywhere near power either but I’m not so naive as to believe that this battle is over, or even progressing, just because we sacrificed our values again. They’ve become very close to the conservatives we were all supposed to be afraid of back in 2021, and their trajectory is that they’re getting worse, not better. If the Liberal voters are so wise, should they not be acutely aware of this fact?
You even admit that coalitions work and, I imagine, understand that the NDP used their leverage to get Canadians things that we needed when the Liberals weren’t going to on their own. They fight for us even when they aren’t in full control. How are they supposed to form a coalition without having any seats?
It’s always “now is not the time” with you lot. It’s cowardly and weak. You’re right that it’s going to take time, so we better start now if we want to see any change in the future. Yes, it will suck for a moment, but do you really believe that the solution is to make endless excuses every single election cycle?
The NDP have a good platform, ticks my boxes, but they seem kinda incompetent to me.
And they constantly in fight and bicker over who gets to ride the highest horse.
Lol dam, straight. The NDP are like 16 year Olds who see the world through rose color glasses.
Instead of doing shit to make more jobs and better jobs, they would rather just make a bigger welfare program.
Andrea horwath , the former leader of ontario, ndp. Current mayor of hamilton. Worst fucking mayor I have ever seen. Blows a bunch of money on tiny home bulshit that flopped like old man dick. Raised property taxes in the city with the highest property tax already. Doesn’t seem to understand how everyone does lunch everyday with out having catering
Why? Was it all the stuff they got done when the only power they had was a coalition government? What was it? And Carney getting stuff done is better even though the stuff being done is bad? What about the Liberals and their constant lying, scheming, and persistent disdain for the working class make them a better choice?
Are for real? You cannot honestly be that stupid, can you?
Hey friend I, and many others here, may be sympathetic to the disrespect that the NDP gets, but your hyperpartisan and absolute rejection of other parties (and similarly- framed NDP boosting) comes across poorly.
Do you honestly believe the NDP is the only honest, principled and righteous party in the country? And you believe they would stay that way when they necessarily grew their tent in order to assume power?