This character who famously has been hetero, now suddenly bus gay and we just recon that they were always gay, you just didn’t notice
Which is then followed with a “huh?”
I rarely see people having issues with characters being gay or trans or anything really, it’s just when it gets shoehorned in really badly, or when everything about the show/movie/game is really bad, but my main character is gay, so now you MUST LOVE THIS PRODUCT!
Just make a good product, and I honestly don’t care if your main character is straight, gay, brown black or purple
People lost their absolute shit when dragon age veilguard came out because of a scene many hours into the game, for a side character, during a side mission, that they didn’t need to do. The clip out of context makes it seem like it’s shoved in your face for no reason, but if they actually played the game that characters entire side quest was building up to that moment where they come out to their mom.
It’s one game, you can’t write a trans character into one game without outrage.
You don’t even need to write a trans character. Starfield merely gives you the option to change your pronouns and the anti-woke dickheads lost their minds.
You know i had a new patient call with a doctor’s office yesterday and they asked me for my pronouns and gender identity. Do these people just “crash out” and find a new doctor in these cases? How do people make it through their lives…
I think it’s more that “Dragon Age” Veilguard is a shit game in a beloved series. They’ve always had gay characters in that series and no one (sane, mind you) batted an eye. I think the only reason this trans character got fully blown out of proportion is because the writing is mediocre at best, and everything else wrong with the game, which means the trans issue is even more overblown because it got swept into the “bad game in general” train.
There would’ve still been outrage, no doubt about it, but we should all be aware that 90% of that is bots spreading hate and manufactured outrage. If it was an actually good game that got the treatment it deserves as a Dragon Age game, the general populace would’ve shrugged and kept playing it because it’s good.
Is it? II received a lot of hate (though I personally loved it EXCEPT for the repetitive ass dungeons) and Inquisition I just couldn’t get into. Was Inquisition good?
I wish I could just go back and replay DA:O and DAII right now, but they take so much time!
Two had a lot of hate because the fanbase was so in love with what they did with the first game. They essentially took everything that made the first game great, and watered it down for the masses. Flashy combat, sure, but the RPG elements were hardly there, which is kind of what the fans loved about the first one. Multiple origin stories (name of the game baby) and a swath of “play your way” gameplay. Tactics for AI companions, the different branching paths for how you handle the choices during the game, and companions who were really well written for the most part with quests to flesh the world out and let the player immerse themselves.
Two was city, back and forth. Watered down game mechanics, a story that didn’t feel as well written as the first, and I’m pretty sure they had the dialogue wheel in two, which is all around god awful for an RPG game. The lines hardly matched what Hawk was going to say.
Inquisition was a step up in some areas, and yet another downgrade in others. It was a solid 5/10 for me. Playable, but nothing to rant or rave about.
The fan base has slowly lost interest in the series as time goes on because their writing is just getting so god damn awful now. Where in Origins, it felt like they could be real people, all reacting in different ways to a Blight that’s at their doorstep, and quickly coming in. In Veilguard, it’s like the writers have only ever consumed marvel movie dialogues and thinks that EVERY single character needs to have some quip, comeback, sob story, or other marvel movie quirk. Really big “well, that just happened!” energy in that whole game.
Maybe in the new ones. Mass effect is old, gay options would probably have killed the series of they existed in the first game. 3 was the only one with real support.
Dumbledore wasn’t “famously hetero”. Revealing the sexuality of a character who never had one established isn’t a change, it’s just new information. Getting offended at that is no less bigoted than getting offended at a new gay character being introduced.
1 was straight or liara only. 2 was straight with aliens except for Kelly being a bi option which didn’t actually trigger the romance achievement. 3 actually had some gay/bi options, but only Kaiden was a character that already existed.
Looks like you’re right. It looks like they did consider making Ashley and Kaiden bi so the VAs did record lines for both. I always thought he was bi because there are options to flirt and Bioware did make bi characters earlier in Jade Empire.
For Mass Effect, one can write some of this off as ‘player choice mechanics,’ EG their sexuality isn’t super explicit earlier and they want to give players romance options, so ‘declaring’ them gay or bi makes a lot of sense.
It’s building canon on the fly, kind of like how some RPG game characters are flavored blank slates in a way that isn’t possible in ‘fixed’ media like books or TV.
I don’t have all the details but I think they did this with Ice man a while back. Could have been an alternate timeline or something though I’ve never read that storyline.
Comic books are a bad example imo because retconing characters is just what they do over there lmfao. But yeah they did decide in 2015 that Iceman was a closeted gay man. His sexuality wasn’t really a major point of his character beforehand tho and I think the way they did it told an interesting story for his character, so I think it was a worthwhile retcon of an otherwise kind of mediocre character.
Yeah I don’t really care about it, hence why I haven’t read the story lol but it is an example. The fact it’s the only one I can think of would indicate this isn’t an issue that people need to stress over.
Takes the character seven (of nine) and just scrambles everything about her to the point where she doesn’t resemble her own character that she played 20 years prior
Amongst the changes they made was that hthe character was suddenly gay, even though in three years of shows she has basically been straight.
Now let me be real clear: I have zero problems with her being gay, perse, this is star Trek and Star Trek fans aren’t transphobic or any phobic or they wouldn’t be fans of the show, watching each time how you should think about treating your favorite enemy better.
I have a problem with it being abused from here to hell and back again by shit shows and movies to try and hope that the audience won’t notice that the writers were the fucking worst
And this isn’t just me, basically any time I see someone pissed about a gay character, it’s because of that
The writers were too lazy to write a new gay character, so let’s just take an existing one, must be pretty enough, check, so now we make her gay and just recon that it was always like that and we’re just misremembering
The writers also have no talent so instead of using a fat character for some moral dilemma, well just have them make out on screen, so much simpler.
And of course once people have legit criticism, you just start a nice Twitter campaign where you call them *phobe, anything better than actually delivering a quality product.
God, modern Star trek is baaaaddd
I’m telling you all this (and hopefully you read it) because I know that most people really aren’t that bad once you stop screaming and blocking and instead try to have a normal conversation. Once you do that you find out that you’re mostly thinking the same.
I’m LGBT+, I’ll support almost anything left, that’s why I’m on Lemmy too, I just want good movies
Really? That is your issue with Star Trek Picard? That the character specifically driven on a mission of self discovery isn’t the same as she was 20 years ago?
You asked an example, i give you an example. This is a fairly common fandom complaint for the very reason why were having this discussion, so what is your point?
Believe me, ST Picard has a hundred other issues that combines together ruined watching any star trek for years. Its a shit show.
No, seriously, what shows has this issue ruined? By that I mean something that would have been good and enjoyable, but a character being retconned or progressively written to be gay or whatever was the thing that turned it bad for you. Shit writing is shit writing, and 7 of 9 not being straight isn’t what made Picard a bad show. What show was bad specifically because of this issue?
In my limited experience, it’s not that
In games and movies it’s usually:
This character who famously has been hetero, now suddenly bus gay and we just recon that they were always gay, you just didn’t notice
Which is then followed with a “huh?”
I rarely see people having issues with characters being gay or trans or anything really, it’s just when it gets shoehorned in really badly, or when everything about the show/movie/game is really bad, but my main character is gay, so now you MUST LOVE THIS PRODUCT!
Just make a good product, and I honestly don’t care if your main character is straight, gay, brown black or purple
Mind providing an example?
Elton John in Rocket Man.
What do you mean he was always gay?!?!
People lost their absolute shit when dragon age veilguard came out because of a scene many hours into the game, for a side character, during a side mission, that they didn’t need to do. The clip out of context makes it seem like it’s shoved in your face for no reason, but if they actually played the game that characters entire side quest was building up to that moment where they come out to their mom.
It’s one game, you can’t write a trans character into one game without outrage.
You don’t even need to write a trans character. Starfield merely gives you the option to change your pronouns and the anti-woke dickheads lost their minds.
You know i had a new patient call with a doctor’s office yesterday and they asked me for my pronouns and gender identity. Do these people just “crash out” and find a new doctor in these cases? How do people make it through their lives…
I think it’s more that “Dragon Age” Veilguard is a shit game in a beloved series. They’ve always had gay characters in that series and no one (sane, mind you) batted an eye. I think the only reason this trans character got fully blown out of proportion is because the writing is mediocre at best, and everything else wrong with the game, which means the trans issue is even more overblown because it got swept into the “bad game in general” train.
There would’ve still been outrage, no doubt about it, but we should all be aware that 90% of that is bots spreading hate and manufactured outrage. If it was an actually good game that got the treatment it deserves as a Dragon Age game, the general populace would’ve shrugged and kept playing it because it’s good.
This is just my opinion though.
Is it? II received a lot of hate (though I personally loved it EXCEPT for the repetitive ass dungeons) and Inquisition I just couldn’t get into. Was Inquisition good?
I wish I could just go back and replay DA:O and DAII right now, but they take so much time!
TL:DR: Veilguard is garbage compared to Origins.
I would say so.
Two had a lot of hate because the fanbase was so in love with what they did with the first game. They essentially took everything that made the first game great, and watered it down for the masses. Flashy combat, sure, but the RPG elements were hardly there, which is kind of what the fans loved about the first one. Multiple origin stories (name of the game baby) and a swath of “play your way” gameplay. Tactics for AI companions, the different branching paths for how you handle the choices during the game, and companions who were really well written for the most part with quests to flesh the world out and let the player immerse themselves.
Two was city, back and forth. Watered down game mechanics, a story that didn’t feel as well written as the first, and I’m pretty sure they had the dialogue wheel in two, which is all around god awful for an RPG game. The lines hardly matched what Hawk was going to say.
Inquisition was a step up in some areas, and yet another downgrade in others. It was a solid 5/10 for me. Playable, but nothing to rant or rave about.
The fan base has slowly lost interest in the series as time goes on because their writing is just getting so god damn awful now. Where in Origins, it felt like they could be real people, all reacting in different ways to a Blight that’s at their doorstep, and quickly coming in. In Veilguard, it’s like the writers have only ever consumed marvel movie dialogues and thinks that EVERY single character needs to have some quip, comeback, sob story, or other marvel movie quirk. Really big “well, that just happened!” energy in that whole game.
Noticed zero examples listed. Interesting.
Name a single example, please
Non game one, Dumbledore was declared gay by Rowling.
In games, Kaiden Alenko becomes gay in ME3 if he’s still alive.
I thought every party member in Bioware games was basically bisexual tbh
Maybe in the new ones. Mass effect is old, gay options would probably have killed the series of they existed in the first game. 3 was the only one with real support.
A quick Google shows that both male and female player characters had the exact same romance options, so he was always bi
Maybe an AI hallucination, or you misread the part about it being possible with save editing.
Ah, nah, I misread a guide on it apparently
Dumbledore wasn’t “famously hetero”. Revealing the sexuality of a character who never had one established isn’t a change, it’s just new information. Getting offended at that is no less bigoted than getting offended at a new gay character being introduced.
I’m pretty sure Kaiden is one of male Shepard’s romance options in the first game dude.
1 was straight or liara only. 2 was straight with aliens except for Kelly being a bi option which didn’t actually trigger the romance achievement. 3 actually had some gay/bi options, but only Kaiden was a character that already existed.
Looks like you’re right. It looks like they did consider making Ashley and Kaiden bi so the VAs did record lines for both. I always thought he was bi because there are options to flirt and Bioware did make bi characters earlier in Jade Empire.
For Mass Effect, one can write some of this off as ‘player choice mechanics,’ EG their sexuality isn’t super explicit earlier and they want to give players romance options, so ‘declaring’ them gay or bi makes a lot of sense.
It’s building canon on the fly, kind of like how some RPG game characters are flavored blank slates in a way that isn’t possible in ‘fixed’ media like books or TV.
I don’t have all the details but I think they did this with Ice man a while back. Could have been an alternate timeline or something though I’ve never read that storyline.
Comic books are a bad example imo because retconing characters is just what they do over there lmfao. But yeah they did decide in 2015 that Iceman was a closeted gay man. His sexuality wasn’t really a major point of his character beforehand tho and I think the way they did it told an interesting story for his character, so I think it was a worthwhile retcon of an otherwise kind of mediocre character.
Yeah I don’t really care about it, hence why I haven’t read the story lol but it is an example. The fact it’s the only one I can think of would indicate this isn’t an issue that people need to stress over.
There were people shitting on FF14 because a voice actor is trans. Not an Alpha-Bit in sight and they’re still crying woke DEI.
I’m a bit out of the loop, but which ones are you even talking about? Marvel?
I don’t recall any doing this.
Any examples of this?
Star Trek Picard
Takes the character seven (of nine) and just scrambles everything about her to the point where she doesn’t resemble her own character that she played 20 years prior
Amongst the changes they made was that hthe character was suddenly gay, even though in three years of shows she has basically been straight.
Now let me be real clear: I have zero problems with her being gay, perse, this is star Trek and Star Trek fans aren’t transphobic or any phobic or they wouldn’t be fans of the show, watching each time how you should think about treating your favorite enemy better.
I have a problem with it being abused from here to hell and back again by shit shows and movies to try and hope that the audience won’t notice that the writers were the fucking worst
And this isn’t just me, basically any time I see someone pissed about a gay character, it’s because of that
The writers were too lazy to write a new gay character, so let’s just take an existing one, must be pretty enough, check, so now we make her gay and just recon that it was always like that and we’re just misremembering
The writers also have no talent so instead of using a fat character for some moral dilemma, well just have them make out on screen, so much simpler.
And of course once people have legit criticism, you just start a nice Twitter campaign where you call them *phobe, anything better than actually delivering a quality product.
God, modern Star trek is baaaaddd
I’m telling you all this (and hopefully you read it) because I know that most people really aren’t that bad once you stop screaming and blocking and instead try to have a normal conversation. Once you do that you find out that you’re mostly thinking the same.
I’m LGBT+, I’ll support almost anything left, that’s why I’m on Lemmy too, I just want good movies
Really? That is your issue with Star Trek Picard? That the character specifically driven on a mission of self discovery isn’t the same as she was 20 years ago?
What good shows has this “issue” ruined?
You asked an example, i give you an example. This is a fairly common fandom complaint for the very reason why were having this discussion, so what is your point?
Believe me, ST Picard has a hundred other issues that combines together ruined watching any star trek for years. Its a shit show.
No, seriously, what shows has this issue ruined? By that I mean something that would have been good and enjoyable, but a character being retconned or progressively written to be gay or whatever was the thing that turned it bad for you. Shit writing is shit writing, and 7 of 9 not being straight isn’t what made Picard a bad show. What show was bad specifically because of this issue?
wut?
It’s a small typo from the auto correct that went the other direction, is all. I thought it’d be obvious what was meant
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