The quote from Mills assumes the “other side” has reasons, or is willing to argue in good faith.
I have no problem with conservative communities. MAGA isn’t just a conservative community, it’s a hate-driven cult. We already know their reasons, they have nothing else to contribute to a meaningful discourse.
I’m so bored of this “but we need to listen to the opposing view” bullshit. We know what the maga fascists think, we will learn nothing new by putting up with their crap.
And we’ve seen two times what listening to maga and giving people like that a platform to discuss results in. Trump being elected twice and maybe a third in the future.
We have actual real world events of how ineffective it is with networks giving Trump huge coverage when he first appeared.
I don’t think in our context the point would be to seriously consider the other side. Rather to hear what they’re on about at the moment purely informatively. But if most don’t want that the rest could use alts to check on the crazies.
it’s a hate-driven cult. We already know their reasons, they have nothing else to contribute to a meaningful discourse.
You know, they say much the same about us.
Almost like the way to resolve the situation is actual dialogue rather than just seeing the worst of each side getting thrown up on social media.
For every asshole in MAGA gear that we take as a fair representation of the group, there’s some kid talking about how the only good MAGA person is six feet under and making it look like everyone on the Left is ready to kill anyone who disagrees with them.
I’ve had actual dialogue. For real. Many times, over many years, with many of them.
After you’ve had enough conversations with them, you start to realize that they’re not interested in good-faith discussion. If they were, they wouldn’t be part of the cult. Or in other words, anyone who was interested in good-faith discussion has already left.
I’m not using hyperbole or exaggerating. Any person still wearing the red hat is not interested in anything you have to say. If you want proof, ask anyone from MAGA: “What would it take to change your mind?” I’ve asked this question dozens of times, and I’ve only gotten two answers: “nothing”, and nothing.
It’s good to have the general approach of wanting to hear the opinions of others. But like anything, too much of a good thing can become a bad thing. In this case, the MAGA folks will take advantage of your willingness to platform them, and trample all over you for it. In this case, “hearing both sides” isn’t helping them or you. They’ve made their positions very clear, and they won’t be swayed. There’s realistically nothing they could tell me to sway my position either, because there’s nothing that could override the evidence from the man himself. It’s a useless standoff.
I get wanting to offer the olive branch and resolve things through civil discussion, but realistically there are some cases where that approach hurts more than it helps.
It doesn’t mean we have to resort to violent rhetoric or immaturity (though I understand where those people are coming from too), it means we need to approach MAGA for what it is: a cult. Trying to help someone leave a cult is very different from having a discussion about politics. There are some effective ways to help someone leave a cult, but online cross-community friction isn’t that–it’s only going to get people more divided.
Ironically, sometimes it’s less divisive to simply defederate.
The quote from Mills assumes the “other side” has reasons, or is willing to argue in good faith.
I have no problem with conservative communities. MAGA isn’t just a conservative community, it’s a hate-driven cult. We already know their reasons, they have nothing else to contribute to a meaningful discourse.
I’m so bored of this “but we need to listen to the opposing view” bullshit. We know what the maga fascists think, we will learn nothing new by putting up with their crap.
100% this.
It’s like giving nazi’s and child rapists a voice on Lemmy. In fact MAGA is JUST like that.
Something something Venn circle something something
And we’ve seen two times what listening to maga and giving people like that a platform to discuss results in. Trump being elected twice and maybe a third in the future.
We have actual real world events of how ineffective it is with networks giving Trump huge coverage when he first appeared.
Yep. That titanic has sailed.
I don’t think in our context the point would be to seriously consider the other side. Rather to hear what they’re on about at the moment purely informatively. But if most don’t want that the rest could use alts to check on the crazies.
You know, they say much the same about us.
Almost like the way to resolve the situation is actual dialogue rather than just seeing the worst of each side getting thrown up on social media.
For every asshole in MAGA gear that we take as a fair representation of the group, there’s some kid talking about how the only good MAGA person is six feet under and making it look like everyone on the Left is ready to kill anyone who disagrees with them.
I’ve had actual dialogue. For real. Many times, over many years, with many of them.
After you’ve had enough conversations with them, you start to realize that they’re not interested in good-faith discussion. If they were, they wouldn’t be part of the cult. Or in other words, anyone who was interested in good-faith discussion has already left.
I’m not using hyperbole or exaggerating. Any person still wearing the red hat is not interested in anything you have to say. If you want proof, ask anyone from MAGA: “What would it take to change your mind?” I’ve asked this question dozens of times, and I’ve only gotten two answers: “nothing”, and nothing.
It’s good to have the general approach of wanting to hear the opinions of others. But like anything, too much of a good thing can become a bad thing. In this case, the MAGA folks will take advantage of your willingness to platform them, and trample all over you for it. In this case, “hearing both sides” isn’t helping them or you. They’ve made their positions very clear, and they won’t be swayed. There’s realistically nothing they could tell me to sway my position either, because there’s nothing that could override the evidence from the man himself. It’s a useless standoff.
I get wanting to offer the olive branch and resolve things through civil discussion, but realistically there are some cases where that approach hurts more than it helps.
It doesn’t mean we have to resort to violent rhetoric or immaturity (though I understand where those people are coming from too), it means we need to approach MAGA for what it is: a cult. Trying to help someone leave a cult is very different from having a discussion about politics. There are some effective ways to help someone leave a cult, but online cross-community friction isn’t that–it’s only going to get people more divided.
Ironically, sometimes it’s less divisive to simply defederate.