I honestly don’t think third spaces on their own are the answer.
And I would agree. Men in a group setting of only men will typically behave entirely differently than if you drop even a single woman into their midst. A man who is only among men will open up and behave and accept constructive criticism in ways that he will never do with even a single woman present. The change in behaviour a man exhibits in the presence of a woman is instinctual and unconscious, and is unable to be controlled or even moderated by the vast majority of men out there.
Having male-only spaces is absolutely essential to allowing men to behave as they would without the unconscious/instinctual pressure they would be subject to with a woman present.
Too bad these kinds of places are “misogynistic” in ways that women-only spaces are “not misandric”. The gender bigotry and hypocrisy in this dichotomy is blindingly overwhelming.
I’m not saying you are categorically wrong about the benefits of male-only spaces. But I will say that the attitude and language with which you are approaching the issue is not doing you any favors.
If some friends hanging out together just wanna have a boys night because that’s what they want to do - because they like that energy for whatever reason… if that’s patriarchy… Then I’m okay with patriarchy.
Probably why gaming bros became so popular. A time to hang out with “da boys” because there aren’t any other places you can do that without spending money.
Men don’t need men-only spaces. That only deepens the rift between sexes. It’s absolutely not needed. You can completely respect the difference in sexes and that difference is welcomed, all other matters are bullshit from society. What humanity needs is respectful spaces for all sexes, not division.
I have to say, I personally have been actively seeking male-only spaces for the past year. This has nothing to do with disliking women. I like women a lot and have a lot of female friends I care deeply about. The reason comes from my end - I have things that are difficult for me to talk about that I would like to discuss in a supportive environment with other people who understand and accept my lived experience. While I can and do open up to my female friends about some things, for other things I am simply more comfortable talking to other guys - where “more comfortable” means “I might talk about it *at
all.”
Unfortunately, most male-only spaces put up significant barriers to entry, because otherwise they become magnets for right wing lunatics or the chronically depressed.
The easiest way to identify gender bigotry is to flip the genders in contention. If there is identical interpretations, there is no bigotry in play. If there is a massive difference in how they are each interpreted, there is a massive amount of gender bigotry in play.
“Women don’t need women-only spaces.”
That sounds totally different, doesn’t it? Almost… threatening.
Now apply this to all the women-only spaces out there, like women-only gyms. Why should women-only gyms get to exist while men-only gyms get sued out of existence? Gender bigotry.
This cascades down through the whole of society - DV shelters, shelters for single parents, initiatives of all kinds for the vulnerable and precarious, which for nearly all of them focus far more heavily, or even exclusively, on women even when they are in the extreme minority.
So let’s strive for true equality - equal opportunities, services, and support for all. And if women have their own spaces, why not men? After all, that is what “equality” means.
Except that seems to generate unfathomable rage from the female supremacists when it actually gets suggested, who do everything in their power to shame such ideas of true equality into oblivion.
And I would agree. Men in a group setting of only men will typically behave entirely differently than if you drop even a single woman into their midst. A man who is only among men will open up and behave and accept constructive criticism in ways that he will never do with even a single woman present. The change in behaviour a man exhibits in the presence of a woman is instinctual and unconscious, and is unable to be controlled or even moderated by the vast majority of men out there.
Having male-only spaces is absolutely essential to allowing men to behave as they would without the unconscious/instinctual pressure they would be subject to with a woman present.
Too bad these kinds of places are “misogynistic” in ways that women-only spaces are “not misandric”. The gender bigotry and hypocrisy in this dichotomy is blindingly overwhelming.
I’m not saying you are categorically wrong about the benefits of male-only spaces. But I will say that the attitude and language with which you are approaching the issue is not doing you any favors.
Just to reinforce: male-only spaces are patriarchy, and there is no end to it or equality unless we end a specific sex-only space.
If some friends hanging out together just wanna have a boys night because that’s what they want to do - because they like that energy for whatever reason… if that’s patriarchy… Then I’m okay with patriarchy.
Like women-only gyms? DV shelters only for women? Shelters for homeless parents that service only mothers with children?
If that is what is needed to reach true equality, then I’m all for it.
However, I think tearing down useful gender-specific spaces is far more damaging than simply providing such spaces equally to both genders.
Probably why gaming bros became so popular. A time to hang out with “da boys” because there aren’t any other places you can do that without spending money.
Men don’t need men-only spaces. That only deepens the rift between sexes. It’s absolutely not needed. You can completely respect the difference in sexes and that difference is welcomed, all other matters are bullshit from society. What humanity needs is respectful spaces for all sexes, not division.
I have to say, I personally have been actively seeking male-only spaces for the past year. This has nothing to do with disliking women. I like women a lot and have a lot of female friends I care deeply about. The reason comes from my end - I have things that are difficult for me to talk about that I would like to discuss in a supportive environment with other people who understand and accept my lived experience. While I can and do open up to my female friends about some things, for other things I am simply more comfortable talking to other guys - where “more comfortable” means “I might talk about it *at all.”
Unfortunately, most male-only spaces put up significant barriers to entry, because otherwise they become magnets for right wing lunatics or the chronically depressed.
Most of the time it’s right wing echo chambers, places
The easiest way to identify gender bigotry is to flip the genders in contention. If there is identical interpretations, there is no bigotry in play. If there is a massive difference in how they are each interpreted, there is a massive amount of gender bigotry in play.
“Women don’t need women-only spaces.”
That sounds totally different, doesn’t it? Almost… threatening.
Now apply this to all the women-only spaces out there, like women-only gyms. Why should women-only gyms get to exist while men-only gyms get sued out of existence? Gender bigotry.
This cascades down through the whole of society - DV shelters, shelters for single parents, initiatives of all kinds for the vulnerable and precarious, which for nearly all of them focus far more heavily, or even exclusively, on women even when they are in the extreme minority.
So let’s strive for true equality - equal opportunities, services, and support for all. And if women have their own spaces, why not men? After all, that is what “equality” means.
Except that seems to generate unfathomable rage from the female supremacists when it actually gets suggested, who do everything in their power to shame such ideas of true equality into oblivion.