Yes. Or treat trans women as women. Because that’s what they are. Name a situation where you think this would be problematic and I’ll show you why it’s patently absurd.
What’s your point? Cool story, still raped two women. Don’t put violent sex offenders with the demographic they victimized. Should lesbian sex offenders be incarcerated with other women? Probably not, right?
You’ve just made a great argument for why gendered prisons are a ridiculous notion in the first place, and why results-based decision making is more important than broad, impersonal classification-based decision making.
And that’s before we even talk about how the overwhelming majority of prisons in general are inhumane and ineffective at reducing crime.
I’m not making a point, I’m responding to your request: “treat trans women as women. Because that’s what they are. Name a situation where you think this would be problematic” with the Isla Bryson case.
Initially she was treated as a woman and chucked in a female-only prison. According to you, this is 100% correct.
I agree with your point about prisons in general not being a brilliant solution to crime, being known as universities for criminals. But that - and gendered prisons - are what we’ve got, and we aren’t going to rebuild the entire criminal justice system around the tiny number of trans criminals have a problem with this.
Regardless of gender, if there is a prisoner who is likely to perpetrate sexual violence, then the great care needs to be taken to ensure the safety of other prisoners. Cis people are plenty capable of committing sexual assault. Trans people are far more likely to be victims of sexual violence than perpetrators of it.
Should a male-presenting, gay sex offender go to a male prison or female prison? What is the purpose of gendered prisons? What problem is it trying to solve? And why are we using gender for that instead of “likely victims of the incarcerated individual”?
Gendered prisons are a ridiculous notion that only exist because our prison system itself is completely fucked up, profit-driven, and inhumane. It produces worse outcomes than almost any other form of legal consequences except in extreme cases.
i’ve seen so many transphobes who just say “god didn’t want it” and that’s the end of the story. we need more discussion in our world, and we need good arguments; even if i don’t agree with you.
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Yes. Or treat trans women as women. Because that’s what they are. Name a situation where you think this would be problematic and I’ll show you why it’s patently absurd.
I’m trying to think of a situation where a penis, testicles, ovaries, etc, are required and the law would care but I’m not coming up with anything.
Like, you can’t be a sperm donor if your body doesn’t produce sperm. but that’s not something the law needs to worry about, right?
Yup. Pretty much.
I’ve got one for you, and it’s not even hypothetical. Man rapes two women, gets caught, but transitions before being sentenced.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64796926
What’s your point? Cool story, still raped two women. Don’t put violent sex offenders with the demographic they victimized. Should lesbian sex offenders be incarcerated with other women? Probably not, right?
You’ve just made a great argument for why gendered prisons are a ridiculous notion in the first place, and why results-based decision making is more important than broad, impersonal classification-based decision making.
And that’s before we even talk about how the overwhelming majority of prisons in general are inhumane and ineffective at reducing crime.
I’m not making a point, I’m responding to your request: “treat trans women as women. Because that’s what they are. Name a situation where you think this would be problematic” with the Isla Bryson case.
Initially she was treated as a woman and chucked in a female-only prison. According to you, this is 100% correct.
I agree with your point about prisons in general not being a brilliant solution to crime, being known as universities for criminals. But that - and gendered prisons - are what we’ve got, and we aren’t going to rebuild the entire criminal justice system around the tiny number of trans criminals have a problem with this.
I said I would show why it’s patently absurd. And I did. Absurdity comes in many forms, including systemic issues that require dramatic change
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Technically yes, but people don’t tend to do that because identity runs deep and the trends is to correct a wrong like a mind-body mismatch.
It’s complex but it’s usually gender dysphoria.
You’d probably go into the prison that matches your official documentation regardless of what you say.
everyone already self identifies. the fact that most people are cis doesn’t change that fact.
the second is about procedures, and it would change from one jurisdiction to another. the real question is what ought to happen.
and think about what that means. why do we have gendered prisons, but not gendered parks? a prison surely must have more security than a public park.
why do we have
genderedprisons? Though i guess that’s where this line of questioning ultimately leads huh?But also fuck gender prisons.
fuck gender prisons…
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🙃
Regardless of gender, if there is a prisoner who is likely to perpetrate sexual violence, then the great care needs to be taken to ensure the safety of other prisoners. Cis people are plenty capable of committing sexual assault. Trans people are far more likely to be victims of sexual violence than perpetrators of it.
Let me turn that around on you:
Should a male-presenting, gay sex offender go to a male prison or female prison? What is the purpose of gendered prisons? What problem is it trying to solve? And why are we using gender for that instead of “likely victims of the incarcerated individual”?
Gendered prisons are a ridiculous notion that only exist because our prison system itself is completely fucked up, profit-driven, and inhumane. It produces worse outcomes than almost any other form of legal consequences except in extreme cases.
Are you a woman?
Nooo https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pRnyfVgQbXk
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at least you bring forward an actual argument.
i’ve seen so many transphobes who just say “god didn’t want it” and that’s the end of the story. we need more discussion in our world, and we need good arguments; even if i don’t agree with you.