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☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml to Socialism@lemmy.mlEnglish · 2 months ago

What are the differences between US and Chinese democracy?

peoplesdispatch.org

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What are the differences between US and Chinese democracy?

peoplesdispatch.org

☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml to Socialism@lemmy.mlEnglish · 2 months ago
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Just a moment...
peoplesdispatch.org
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  • Daniel Quinn
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    1 month ago

    “Chinese democracy”

    Edit: it’s clear that the majority of those in this community aren’t interested in living in a world where words have meaning, but for the minority, I offer this recent report from Varieties of Democracy that unsurprisingly classifies China as a “closed autocracy” because it:

    • Has no multiparty elections for the executive
    • Lacks fundamental democratic components such as freedom of expression, freedom of association, and free & fair elections

    Interestingly, Canada is not listed in the “liberal democracies” category, since we lack judicial and legislative constraints on the executive.

    Also, the US stands to lose its democracy rating in next year’s report, so maybe then China will be as “democratic” as the US.

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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      2 months ago

      What’s that you were saying there western ignoramus?

      • https://jasonhickel.substack.com/p/studies-show-strong-public-support
      • https://www.newsweek.com/most-china-call-their-nation-democracy-most-us-say-america-isnt-1711176
      • https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2021/0218/Vilified-abroad-popular-at-home-China-s-Communist-Party-at-100
      • https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-06-26/which-nations-are-democracies-some-citizens-might-disagree
      • https://web.archive.org/web/20230511041927/https://6389062.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/6389062/Canva images/Democracy Perception Index 2023.pdf
      • https://www.tbsnews.net/world/china-more-democratic-america-say-people-98686
      • https://web.archive.org/web/20201229132410/https://en.news-front.info/2020/06/27/studies-have-shown-that-china-is-more-democratic-than-the-united-states-russia-is-nearby-and-ukraine-is-at-the-bottom/
      • Daniel Quinn
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        2 months ago

        Well if we’re going to agree to live in a world where words don’t have meanings anymore, then sure, China’s a “democracy”.

        If however we want to have an adult conversation about it, then we need to agree on the meaning of words, and “democracy” is literally “rule by the people”. Given this (admittedly broad and forgiving) definition, China with its autocratic , centralised rule by a one-party government for which the public has no peaceful means of deposing is objectively not a democracy.

        This isn’t to say that the US is much better of course, but you don’t do yourself any favours by measuring yourself against the dumbest kid in the class.

        They’re both terrible, though at least the US has free(ish) and fair(ish) elections.

        • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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          2 months ago

          If however we want to have an adult conversation about it, then we need to agree on the meaning of words, and “democracy” is literally “rule by the people”.

          This “adult” conversation is coming from a lifetime of Cold War I & Cold War II anti-communist propaganda. You’re not engaging with the material presented; you’re just repeating your preconceptions.

          They’re both terrible, though at least the US has free(ish) and fair(ish) elections.

          It’s demonstrably false that they’re even very -ish. The US government was never not captured by the bourgeoisie, because the US was born of a bourgeois revolution[1]. The wealthy, white, male, land-owning, largely slave-owning Founding Fathers constructed a bourgeois state with “checks and balances” against the “tyranny of the majority”. It was never meant to represent the majority—the working class—and it never has, despite eventually allowing women and non-whites (at least those not disenfranchised by the carceral system) to vote. BBC: [Princeton & Northwestern] Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy

          • Daniel Quinn
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            2 months ago

            The “material” presented was a series of articles citing the same study that polled the citizens of the US and China to ask if they thought their government was democratic. This does not change the meaning of the word, but rather outlines the general ignorance of those using it.

            You make an excellent point about the US system, though I think we agree that the US is a shit model for democracy regardless.

            • Grapho@lemmy.ml
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              2 months ago

              This does not change the meaning of the word, but rather outlines the general ignorance of those using it.

              I always expect chauvinism from white Canadians talking about democracy but I always hope y’all will be self aware enough to not flaunt it in the middle of your Concerns™.

              Bourgeois democracy is no democracy at all, thank fuck they don’t want to adopt it more closely. The Chinese people would have already been sold out by politicians in the pocket of big corporations, and then westerners would decry how it’s just one of those inevitable things but at least they have their freedom.

              In case you’re ever actually interested in learning something instead of concern trolling: https://redsails.org/xi-on-democracy/

        • Grapho@lemmy.ml
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          2 months ago

          If the vast majority of people in a country are happy enough with their input in government to call it “democratic” that’s a pretty good sign it’s a democracy. But sure, it’s everyone else who’s making words meaningless

          • Daniel Quinn
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            2 months ago

            I think you’re conflating “happy people” with “people living under a democratic system of government”. These are not necessarily the same thing.

            • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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              2 months ago

              No they’re not, the studies I linked you above, which you obviously didn’t read, clearly shows that people in China see their country as being democratic.

              • Daniel Quinn
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                2 months ago

                You’re being rather unreasonable here, responding to other threads, making out of context comments, “narrating” and referring to me as a “wasp”. I’m happy to have a civil conversation with you on this one day, but it’s clear that you’re not ready for that yet. I’m out.

                • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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                  2 months ago

                  I’m merely pointing out the fact that you’re spewing nonsense here. There’s no point having a conversation with somebody who’s aggressively ignorant. All people such as yourself do is waste everyone’s time. It’s just lazy trolling. If you cared about the subject then you’d spend the time to educate yourself on it first before stating opinions. No investigation, no right to speak. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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          2 months ago

          Democracy is about fulfilling the will of the people and making sure their needs are met. It is more about having a direct impact on policy, than selecting from 2 pre-approved candidates. More people in China feel they have an impact on policy than US citizens feel, and over 90% of Chinese citizens support their government.

        • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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          2 months ago

          Provided with overwhelming evidence showing that China is not in fact autocratic our wasp double down.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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      2 months ago

      Yes.

    • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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      2 months ago

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