Vous is the 2nd person plural pronoun. Only for when you’re speaking directly to someone, which isn’t gendered anyway (2nd person singular pronoun is Tu).
French doesn’t have a gender neutral 3rd person pronoun. It’s il or elle. Which is unfortunate. There have been attempts to create a gender neutral 3rd person pronoun but none have really taken off. Most French non-binary people who prefer gender neutral pronouns in English will use the pronoun in French that most closely align with their presentation. Il for mascs, elle for femmes. I’m hopeful for this to change honestly.
I am bilingual and have been speaking French every day since I was 4. I work every day entirely in French. I am correcting you on a fundamental aspect of the French language.
Vous is equivalent to saying “you all” in English. It can also be used as a 2nd person singular pronoun, equivalent to “you” in English. You’ll note that “you” isn’t gendered.
“They” is a 3rd person pronoun. It’s used when referring indirectly to someone else. “He” and “she” are also 3rd person pronouns. “You” is the 2nd person singular pronoun in English. We don’t have a dedicated 2nd person singular pronoun (not since like the 17th century), so when referring to 2nd person to a group of people, we say “you all” or “you guys” etc.
Pronouns in French go like this:
Person
Singular
Plural
first
Je
Nous
second
Tu
Vous
third
Il/Elle
Ils/Elles
In English the equivalents are:
Person
Singular
Plural
first
I
We
second
You
“You all/guys” etc
third
He/She
They
People’s preferred pronouns in both English and French are third-person ones (at least when referring to these kinds of pronouns, there’s others like Sir/Ma’am). French does not have a gender neutral third person pronoun by default.
Did… did the tables not help? They can be used as either singular or plural but it’s always third person.
If I was speaking directly to you, and you used they/them pronouns. I wouldn’t convert the sentence “You are tall” to “They are tall”. Those 2 sentences mean entirely different things. That’s what the “person” part of a pronoun is. It’s who you’re referring to. 1st person is the person speaking, 2nd person is the person being spoken to, and 3rd person is someone about whom you are speaking.
1st - “I am tall.”
2nd - “You are tall.”
3rd - “He/She/They is/are tall.”
1st - “Je suis grand.”
2nd - “Tu/Vous es grand.”
3rd - “Il/Elle est grand(e).”
Does this help? Tu is already not gendered. Vous isn’t gendered either. It’s not the same as “they” at all. It means an entirely different thing.
No you’d say “They are tall.” Because that’s how we conjugate that in English. They has always been used as both a singular and a plural because we don’t always know the gender of who were talking about. In French il/ils is the default when you don’t know a 3rd person’s gender. Il/ils is masculine.
It isn’t. I’m a French speaker, I’m telling you it isn’t. Vous is second person singular or plural. They is third person singular or plural. They is NEVER second person. Vous is NEVER third person. This is how the language is used around the world today.
Learning French it just seemed normal to use singular they
Vous is the 2nd person plural pronoun. Only for when you’re speaking directly to someone, which isn’t gendered anyway (2nd person singular pronoun is Tu).
French doesn’t have a gender neutral 3rd person pronoun. It’s il or elle. Which is unfortunate. There have been attempts to create a gender neutral 3rd person pronoun but none have really taken off. Most French non-binary people who prefer gender neutral pronouns in English will use the pronoun in French that most closely align with their presentation. Il for mascs, elle for femmes. I’m hopeful for this to change honestly.
Sounds like you’re mad for the sake of being mad
Singular they is the same in English
lol is this KenM?
I am bilingual and have been speaking French every day since I was 4. I work every day entirely in French. I am correcting you on a fundamental aspect of the French language.
Vous is equivalent to saying “you all” in English. It can also be used as a 2nd person singular pronoun, equivalent to “you” in English. You’ll note that “you” isn’t gendered.
“They” is a 3rd person pronoun. It’s used when referring indirectly to someone else. “He” and “she” are also 3rd person pronouns. “You” is the 2nd person singular pronoun in English. We don’t have a dedicated 2nd person singular pronoun (not since like the 17th century), so when referring to 2nd person to a group of people, we say “you all” or “you guys” etc.
Pronouns in French go like this:
In English the equivalents are:
People’s preferred pronouns in both English and French are third-person ones (at least when referring to these kinds of pronouns, there’s others like Sir/Ma’am). French does not have a gender neutral third person pronoun by default.
Spanish is pretty similar, but we have a dedicated formal “you” (usted/ustedes). Its technically second person, but its conjugated the same as third
Languages evolve through use
You can use vous in place of il elle, just like there is nothing stopping people from using they in place of he/her in English
Did… did the tables not help? They can be used as either singular or plural but it’s always third person.
If I was speaking directly to you, and you used they/them pronouns. I wouldn’t convert the sentence “You are tall” to “They are tall”. Those 2 sentences mean entirely different things. That’s what the “person” part of a pronoun is. It’s who you’re referring to. 1st person is the person speaking, 2nd person is the person being spoken to, and 3rd person is someone about whom you are speaking.
1st - “I am tall.”
2nd - “You are tall.”
3rd - “He/She/They is/are tall.”
1st - “Je suis grand.”
2nd - “Tu/Vous es grand.”
3rd - “Il/Elle est grand(e).”
Does this help? Tu is already not gendered. Vous isn’t gendered either. It’s not the same as “they” at all. It means an entirely different thing.
You/they aren’t gendered already. You/They are tall. He/She is tall
People started using them as pronouns even though you would never say “they is tall”
It’s the same thing
No you’d say “They are tall.” Because that’s how we conjugate that in English. They has always been used as both a singular and a plural because we don’t always know the gender of who were talking about. In French il/ils is the default when you don’t know a 3rd person’s gender. Il/ils is masculine.
It isn’t. I’m a French speaker, I’m telling you it isn’t. Vous is second person singular or plural. They is third person singular or plural. They is NEVER second person. Vous is NEVER third person. This is how the language is used around the world today.
No shit
It’s for people who don’t want to be called it
This is you just being angry for the sake of being angry
Stick with masc pronouns, as has been explained to you from the beginning; if someone wants to be called Vous then they will use it
thank you Lemmy user ‘ILoveBoobies’ for your valuable contribution to this conversation
I think they only like boobies, not love them. I wonder if they mean the bird.
Southern Italian here, lets get Loro up in this houuuuuse