Lol how about every pirate who fundamentally opposes the copyright system?
How about everyone who uses Google and doesn’t want to see it shut down for scraping copyrighted content to provide a search engine?
Seriously, explain to me what’s different at a fundamental level about OpenAI scraping the web and transforming the data through an LLM and Google scraping the web and transforming the data through their algorithms (which include LLMs)?
Google (used to) scrapes the specific details authorized by robots.txt and uses it to make your content visible.
OpenAI scrapes everything it can technically see, ignoring robots.txt and feeds i to a black box and regurgitates it claiming it’s something new, that it deserves to be paid for.
No, the issue is that anything AI creates is by definition derivative. Google doesn’t whip up generative content, it points you to content.
OpenAI is claiming that they can’t do shit without scraping copyrighted works and we all know that’s a load of BS because we’re adrift in a sea of royalty-free text. Critical mass happened well over a decade ago. The amount of new random crap hosted on the internet in the past 30 days would probably take 500 years for one person to digest. Bear at a stream watching an impossibly large amount of salmon jumping
Actually Google tries their hardest NOT to point you to content. They scrape the data from sites and display it directly in the search results so that you don’t need to visit any site except Google. Their new AI answers that they are pushing on users are just another step in that direction.
Literally every page Google shows you, where it also shows you those ads it makes money from, is Google’s content and it is derived from the data it gets scraping the web.
What the fuck are you even talking about? Making a list of website identifiers (names and URLs) so that people can go to them isn’t even slightly the same as making a derived work of the websites’ contents.
Google has to scrape and process the entire webpage and analyze the content to figure out which links to provide you. The end result of them presenting you with those links is from them copying and processing all your site’s data, including when you aren’t listed in the search results.
No, anything Google shows you is kosher and totally symbiotic. A website being shown on Google is at the site owner’s discretion - if they allow search engines to crawl they get the benefit of exposure, and the search engine gets the benefit of having relevant hits and ad revenue and all that. Most sites want click-throughs so it’s usually in their best interest to let search engines list their sites.
Google isn’t exploiting anyone, kinda the opposite, since site owners don’t pay for any ads or exposure (but that exposure has so much value that they’ll pay for SEO). Site owners can decline and Google abides. Anything on Google is on Google with consent.
Web search used to be about scraping the web to find and present other people’s work as just that… their work. Now the handful of websites claim ownership of the contributions of everyone, and at this point it’s just corporations arguing about who owns your stuff. Pirates will not win out in this argument, except maybe in the very short term.
Search engines provide source, they scrap for indexing, but your search gives a list of websites that matches that you will then likely visit. That’s a big fundamental difference.
I dont see why why being downvoted you make some very good points.
Id actually like to see google shut down on copyright grounds. The innovation of necessity would drive foss search alternatives that just ignore said restrictions and most likly we would end up with a better product.
I appreciate the defense of the blind downvotes, though I can’t say I necessarily see how Foss search engines would even be allowed to exist in that case?
Lol how about every pirate who fundamentally opposes the copyright system?
How about everyone who uses Google and doesn’t want to see it shut down for scraping copyrighted content to provide a search engine?
Seriously, explain to me what’s different at a fundamental level about OpenAI scraping the web and transforming the data through an LLM and Google scraping the web and transforming the data through their algorithms (which include LLMs)?
Google (used to) scrapes the specific details authorized by robots.txt and uses it to make your content visible.
OpenAI scrapes everything it can technically see, ignoring robots.txt and feeds i to a black box and regurgitates it claiming it’s something new, that it deserves to be paid for.
Quite different actually.
So if OpenAI complies with Robots.txt files then there’s no issue right?
Because then they’re identical. Open AI spent a bunch of money building a powerful system they feed those results to, as did Google.
No, the issue is that anything AI creates is by definition derivative. Google doesn’t whip up generative content, it points you to content.
OpenAI is claiming that they can’t do shit without scraping copyrighted works and we all know that’s a load of BS because we’re adrift in a sea of royalty-free text. Critical mass happened well over a decade ago. The amount of new random crap hosted on the internet in the past 30 days would probably take 500 years for one person to digest. Bear at a stream watching an impossibly large amount of salmon jumping
Actually Google tries their hardest NOT to point you to content. They scrape the data from sites and display it directly in the search results so that you don’t need to visit any site except Google. Their new AI answers that they are pushing on users are just another step in that direction.
Which is why Google is no longer my default browser. I’d be quite happy if it reverted Back to don’t be evil or just ceased ro exist
Literally every page Google shows you, where it also shows you those ads it makes money from, is Google’s content and it is derived from the data it gets scraping the web.
What the fuck are you even talking about? Making a list of website identifiers (names and URLs) so that people can go to them isn’t even slightly the same as making a derived work of the websites’ contents.
That is not how Google operates.
ok thanks google ceo. please explain
Google has to scrape and process the entire webpage and analyze the content to figure out which links to provide you. The end result of them presenting you with those links is from them copying and processing all your site’s data, including when you aren’t listed in the search results.
No, anything Google shows you is kosher and totally symbiotic. A website being shown on Google is at the site owner’s discretion - if they allow search engines to crawl they get the benefit of exposure, and the search engine gets the benefit of having relevant hits and ad revenue and all that. Most sites want click-throughs so it’s usually in their best interest to let search engines list their sites.
Google isn’t exploiting anyone, kinda the opposite, since site owners don’t pay for any ads or exposure (but that exposure has so much value that they’ll pay for SEO). Site owners can decline and Google abides. Anything on Google is on Google with consent.
Web search used to be about scraping the web to find and present other people’s work as just that… their work. Now the handful of websites claim ownership of the contributions of everyone, and at this point it’s just corporations arguing about who owns your stuff. Pirates will not win out in this argument, except maybe in the very short term.
Search engines provide source, they scrap for indexing, but your search gives a list of websites that matches that you will then likely visit. That’s a big fundamental difference.
Google doesn’t sell the search engine as a product.
Yes they do, just indirectly, it’s how they monopolized the online advertising business.
I dont see why why being downvoted you make some very good points.
Id actually like to see google shut down on copyright grounds. The innovation of necessity would drive foss search alternatives that just ignore said restrictions and most likly we would end up with a better product.
I appreciate the defense of the blind downvotes, though I can’t say I necessarily see how Foss search engines would even be allowed to exist in that case?
There is a difference between allowed and what people do. Piracy isnt allowed u can still pirate literally anything if u want to tho.
You’d probably end up back with AI at that point. A lot easier to distribute a trained model then an entire web index.
Yep but at least the weights would be free
But we do already have that with many LLMs. Both Meta and Microsoft have been publishing their models and weights open source for anyone to use.