It was a fucking toddler trapped in the car you moron.

It couldn’t be opened manually from the outside.

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I’m sorry but when the Quran makes it out that the sun and moon both orbit Earth when that is very clearly false I can’t take it seriously.

Copying from a comment I made on Reddit:

The Quran is considered the unchanging word of Allah passed down to Muhammed by Gabriel. But then what does it mean when the Quran is demonstrably wrong? Well, it means Islam falls apart as the “word of Allah” is disproven.

For example, I’m going to note a verse from the Quran which reveals the Quran’s model of the solar system:

“It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.” (Quran 36:40)

I’ve picked this verse because typically when the Quran conflicts with well-known, proven, modern fact and science, the defense from Muslims is that it’s metaphorical in some way (how convenient). But here not even the metaphorical interpretation makes sense, so its a good verse to solidly disprove.

First, the literal interpretation:

The idea of “overtaking” and the sun and moon’s inability to do so requires the two objects (in this case, the sun and moon) to be moving along roughly the same path/direction (or in the case of celestial objects, the same orbit), else the sentence makes no sense. Following this, this means that according to the Quran, the sun and moon follow the same orbit, an orbit around Earth (i.e. an Earth-centred solar system). This isn’t true, and is easily proven nowadays.

The metaphorical interpretation:

If we take “overtaking” to mean appearing to cross over in the sky and not literal overtaking, well, that’s still wrong. Because exactly that happens during a solar eclipse. The moon appears to overtake the sun in the sky, crossing over it and eclipsing it in the process. So the metaphorical interpretation is also incorrect.

As we can see, no matter which way we decide to interpret this verse, literal or metaphorical, it’s wrong. The “word of Allah” is wrong, and Islam crumbles.

The difference is I disbelieve because I’ve read portions of the Quran and found logical faults/inconsistencies which can’t be made by an omnipotent being and you believe because… ??

The responsibility is on you to do your research before you argue about a topic.

to many believers that is the truth

No? Just because some people believe it doesn’t make it true. That’s like saying because many people believe you can see the great wall of China from space, that it’s true.

A millenium-old book which makes grand claims with no real evidence (and many things wrong!) to back them up so a pedo warlord could live a life of relative luxury with his several wives and conquer Arabia does not count as evidence by the way.

the butterfly effect for example why it is not possible

… The butterfly effect is well proven and very easy to see with simply a double pendulum.

Are you telling me what I can see right in front of me does not exist?

it is his choice, for how to exercise his love

Or to never exercise it at all clearly. Maybe it’s because he doesn’t exist?

Muslims believe that he is most loving so when we don’t see it in this world the assumption is that we will get it in the hereafter.

Very convenient way of explaining away the fact that good things and bad things happen randomly and/or as a direct result of human actions, not as a result of “Allah” choosing how to “exercise love”.

This world is not a place for justice and neither is it fair, for we get it in the hereafter.

How do you know that? There is zero real proof and any “proof” in Islam has been well and truly debunked. You can’t just take an old book at it’s word you know.

cannot say that this action is bad because you do not possess the ability

But Allah is infinite therefore he possesses this ability

What is “this ability” you’re talking about? And Allah doesn’t exist, sorry to break it to you.

That said, I feel for the families of the people who died.

Love the hand-waving here to justify that if your “Allah” exists (he doesn’t, there’s plenty of plot holes in the Quran), he’s clearly not so loving.

Most Wise, Most Loving, Most High (probably on weed)

Point to the comment in this chain where we aren’t talking about what JSO is/should be doing before I got involved, then. With a quote and a link.

PS there’s only one comment before mine and yours and it’s talking about what JSO “should” do. I’ll save you time:

https://lemmy.world/comment/10732265

Ffs just blow up a pipeline or sabotage parts of their infrastructure or follow the higher ups home and deface their homes

This doesn’t bring any of this to forefront of peoples minds.

If they didn’t make headlines a lot less people would be talking about climate change at this moment.

This issue hinges entirely on getting voters to care. Yet, many groups and even you seem to dismiss them, saying “they don’t matter.” In reality, voters are the most crucial factor.

As I said earlier with examples for each category of people, almost everyone in this issue is not going to be influenced to change their opinion on a massive topic like climate change because of a small annoying group. Except those who’ll be spurred onto direct action.

And in that quote I was referring to those who complain about any climate activism (see the comments on blocked oil refineries and painted jets YouTube videos). Not voters overall.

It makes sense that the idea of alienating the general public from climate action might be intentionally promoted by well-funded and organized entities.

This is a potential issue but as I’ve already said, I think what JSO is doing is quite clever for the cause and I don’t think bad actors are involved. If they are, they’re bad at their job.

I see you have nothing else to say so jumped to ad hominem instead.

In this thread we’re talking about the effectiveness of JSOs methods and what they “should do” instead.

From context, it’s clear that it’d be UK action, considering JSO is a UK group.

many climate organizations have been infiltrated

Ok but:

1. you’re talking about the US, JSO is UK based

2. It is a conspiracy theory because you have no hard evidence that JSO is infiltrated and having it’s strings pulled by big oil like you claim

It distracts from the fight

No I’d actually argue it brings the fight to the forefront of people’s minds, specifically the people who are actually inclined to do something. Those who do nothing but complain about climate activism were never going to do anything useful and so their thoughts on the methods are frankly irrelevant since the methods work for those who actually want to act.

We need these groups to be more self aware and create civil action to get people on board instead of making it unpalatable.

They’ve blockaded oil terminals and vandalised terrible offenders driving climate change, and still do. It was nowhere near as effective as their publicity stunts, which get people talking. They just ended up getting whisked away by police and largely ignored by the news. Pointless.

Whether you like it or not, the sort of quiet, non-inconvenient activism you seem to be proposing has shown itself to be useless.

No, it’s the definition the Open Source Initiative has used since their inception.

Which… split off from the FSF and the software freedom movement. And that term was never used before they created it. They literally defined it and started it’s use.

They are just one of many open source communities with their own licenses.

Again, established definition. Stop trying to legitimise your self-concocted definition of “open source”.

That would be “crime”.

A felony is a type of crime which doesn’t exist here.

You can’t just get upset if someone points out you’ve used a word wrong. Words have meanings and while getting it wrong, especially as a second language, isn’t bad, it’s still incorrect and can be confusing (e.g. most people would assume you’re talking about US law when you talk about felonies).

This is the UK. “Felonies” 🙄

But yeah it’s a lot more severe and they’d probably be out of activism forever.

It’s not even paint, it’s cornstarch

“destroy heritage sites”

It’s cornflour lmfao. It’s probably been washed away by now.

Inspiring people to act against climate change.

you can’t expect to enforce the definition you like on everyone

It is literally the definition which has been used since the term’s conception when the open source movement split off from the software freedom movement. It is a well established term with a well established meaning. Just because you don’t want to use that meaning doesn’t mean it isn’t the correct and most widely recognised. Its not that I like the definition, it’s that it is the primary definition and always has been.